Cleveland Sports Forum

Guess we'll never know if the Gs actually made an offer to Abreu and if they did what was it?

Low-ball, completive or over what Abreu got from the Astros.

The amount was 12 million for Clevinger.

Guardians Made Three-Year Offer To Jose Abreu
By Darragh McDonald | November 29, 2022 at 11:58am CDT

Yesterday, the Astros and first baseman Jose Abreu agreed to a three-year, $58.5MM contract, but it seems a surprising club was close to Houston in the bidding for Abreu’s services. Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that the Guardians made a three-year offer, but that the $60MM range was “beyond their reach.”

The Guardians are usually one of the lowest-spending clubs in the league, so the fact that they didn’t sign a costly free agent isn’t exactly shocking. However, it could perhaps be an indication that they have a greater willingness to spend this offseason than usual. The largest free agent contract in the history of the franchise is the $60MM over three years given to Edwin Encarnacion prior to the 2017 season, coincidentally very similar to the deal Abreu just signed. The Guardians did give José Ramírez $129MM over seven years, though that was an extension and not a free agent deal.

Though many fans will remain skeptical of “at least we tried” reports of teams just missing on free agents, there are reasons to think the Guards might actually have some money to work with this winter. The club ran out a roster full of rookies and other young players in 2022, and it worked tremendously. They went 92-70 and finished atop the American League Central despite a very modest payroll. Roster Resource currently pegs their 2023 spending around $72MM, with no individual player set to earn more than the $14MM Ramírez will get. $9MM of that number is the projected arbitration salary of shortstop Amed Rosario, a name frequently mentioned in trade rumors. That $72MM figure is already a slight upgrade over last year’s Opening Day figure of $68MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, but they got as high as $135MM in 2018.

Now that the club is a few years removed from the lost revenues of the pandemic and just got a boost from a surprise postseason run, it’s possible that they are willing to push spending back up near their pre-pandemic levels. It would also make sense from an on-field perspective to build around their bevy of young and talented players while they are still paid at arbitration or pre-arb levels.

If there is some money to be spent, the first base/designated hitter part of the roster is a sensible place to put it. The club has Josh Naylor penciled in as their first baseman but Franmil Reyes flamed out as the designated hitter in 2022 and eventually got put on waivers, going to the Cubs. There would have been an opening for Abreu to step in and split the first base and designated hitter duties with Naylor. It also would make sense to add some extra thump to a lineup that succeeded in 2022 largely by making contact and avoiding strikeouts. The club hit 127 home runs this year, which was 29th in the majors, ahead of only the Tigers. Abreu’s power actually took a step back in 2022, but he still hit 15 home runs and has frequently been a 30-homer bat in the past.

If the Guardians are still willing to pursue this market, there are other options available to them. There are some part-time or role players available such as Trey Mancini or Yuli Gurriel, but the top option is Josh Bell. On MLBTR’s Top 50, he was projected for a $64MM contract over four years. That guarantee is beyond what Abreu got, but at a lower average annual value of $16MM. Since Bell is only 30 years old compared to Abreu’s 36, he will likely require a lengthier commitment, but that lower salary might better suit the Cleveland checkbook. Like Abreu, he would add some thump to the lineup, having hit 17 home runs last year and getting as high as 37 in previous seasons. He also isn’t likely to throw off the club’s low-strikeout style either, as he’s never posted a rate above 19.2% outside of the shortened 2020 season. For context, this year’s league average rate was 22.4% and the Guardians struck out at a collective 18.2% clip.

The Guardians will surely have competition in a pursuit of Bell or any other first basemen they decide to go after. The Padres, Cubs and Marlins were all reported to have been interested in Abreu and they will likely start thinking about the next options on their lists. One other team on that list is the Red Sox, as Jon Heyman of The New York Post reports that Abreu was their top free agent target and they met with him as soon as free agency began.

The Red Sox already have something of a cluttered mix of players for their first base and designated hitter spots. Youngsters Triston Casas and Bobby Dalbec are on the 40-man roster along with veteran Eric Hosmer, picked up in a deadline deal with the Padres last year. However, there’s no real reason for them to be especially committed to Hosmer, as the Padres agreed to pay down all of his remaining contract except for the league minimum. Since joining the Padres prior to 2018, he’s been essentially a replacement level player, producing a wRC+ of 100 and 0.3 fWAR. As for Dalbec, he showed some potential in 2020 and 2021 but struggled greatly in 2022, hitting just .215/.283/.369 for a wRC+ of 80 while striking out in 33.4% of his plate appearances.

We can’t know for sure what subsequent moves the Red Sox would have made if they had signed Abreu, but it seems possible they could have looked to trade Hosmer or simply released him if he used his no-trade clause to block a deal. Dalbec could have also found himself on the trading block but he also has options and could have been retained as minor league depth in case Casas, who has just 27 MLB games under his belt, struggled in 2023. He hit five homers in that short sample and walked a bunch but didn’t hit for much average, leading to a lopsided batting line of .197/.358/.408.

The first base market has been quite robust in the early days of the offseason, as Anthony Rizzo already re-signed with the Yankees, the Pirates traded for Ji-Man Choi and Carlos Santana, followed by Abreu signing with the Astros. With several teams seemingly still interested in upgrading their rosters at first, the remaining free agents might see their phones lighting up very soon.

Abreu supposedly said that he was not interested in any cold weather cities.

White Sox To Sign Mike Clevinger
By Maury Ahram | November 28, 2022 at 11:40am CDT

November 28: Jim Bowden of The Athletic reports that the guarantee is $12MM.

November 27: The White Sox have agreed to a one-year deal with right-hander Mike Clevinger, and the contract will become official once Clevinger passes a physical. Clevinger, represented by ACES, will earn over $8MM in guaranteed money.

$8M, $12M it's just a few million dollar difference

If Ramirez is making $14M this season, can't see bringing in a FA and paying him more and pissing Jose off.

BA teaser regarding their annual awards starting with Organization of the Year

1. Organization of the Year proved to be most difficult and divisive award for the BA editorial staff to select this year. The World Series-champion Astros seem like a strong contender, but they parted with general manager James Click immediately after the World Series and lack the overall front office continuity and stability associated with this award. And of course the sign-stealing scandal of 2017 lingers.

The Dodgers were a serious contender following a 111-win season, but a Division Series exit led president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman to remark that “this was an organizational failure in the postseason.” In other words, not even the Dodgers would pick the Dodgers as Organization of the Year.

The upstart Mariners and Guardians were also very much a part of our spirited debate. In the end, after much discussion, we went with . . . well, come back Thursday to find out!

2. Did you know that our Organization of the Year pick this year had never before won the award in the 40 seasons since BA debuted the honor in 1982? I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF CLEVELAND NEVER WON IT BEFORE, SO IT'S PROBABLY NOT THE GUARDIANS

But the club with the most Organization of the Year wins may surprise you, because it has never won a World Series.

The Brewers have won Org of the Year four times, including a three-peat from 1985 to 1987—on the strength of a farm system that yielded Gary Sheffield, B.J. Surhoff and Chris Bosio, among others.

Milwaukee won a fourth Org of the Year in 2018, when Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff and Josh Hader were all getting established, and Christian Yelich had joined the team after being acquired from the Marlins for four prospects.

3. We view our Organization of the Year award as one of our most prestigious. Aside from our Player of the Year awards for the minor leagues and college baseball, it is our oldest award.

The Milwaukee Brewers' run from 1985 to 1987 is the only three-peat in the history of the award, and the 1983-84 New York Mets have the only other repeat. The Mets won again in 1995. The Atlanta Braves (1991, 1996, 2005), Los Angeles Dodgers (2006, 2017, 2020) and Tampa Bay Rays (2008, 2019, 2021) are the other organizations that have been honored three times.

4. The Oakland Athletics won the first Organization of the Year award in 1982. Sandy Alderson served as general counsel for that club before taking over as general manager in 1983.

Alderson was an early adopter of Baseball America prospect rankings and used them to inform his trade negotiations. When he traded A’s franchise icon Rickey Henderson to the Yankees in December 1984, he acquired four of New York’s top five prospects, as ranked by BA: Jose Rijo (No. 1), Stan Javier (2), Tim Birtsas (3) and Eric Plunk (5).

Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
·
3h
Sources: #Guardians among the most active suitors for #Athletics catcher Sean Murphy, the 2021 Gold Glove winner who could be dealt by the end of the Winter Meetings.

"13 Players Who May Benefit from a Change in Scenery"

Zach Plesac RHP, Guardians

Plesac had once seemed another positive product of the Cleveland pitching factory when he emerged with a 3.32 ERA and 140 ERA+ in 171 innings over his first 29 career starts in 2019-20. But over the past two seasons, he has fractured his thumb while “aggressively ripping off his shirt,” broken his pitching hand punching the mound and labored to the tune of a 4.49 ERA and 90 ERA+. The Guardians are open to dealing him, and perhaps in another place he could recapture his success and eliminate the self-inflicted injuries. [don't forget this trip to a bar to meet friends during COVID restrictions.]

@Ken_Rosenthal


Royals hiring Brian Sweeney as their new pitching coach, sources tell
@TheAthletic
. Sweeney, a former major-league pitcher with the Padres and Mariners, had been a coach with the Guardians since 2018, and their bullpen coach since ‘20.

11:12 AM · Dec 1, 2022

Our front office guys, coaches and especially pitching coaches are in high demand everywhere in baseball.

Plesac is a hothead. Not a positive quality for a pitcher.

Offer him in any trade deals.

rusty2 wrote:Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
·
3h
Sources: #Guardians among the most active suitors for #Athletics catcher Sean Murphy, the 2021 Gold Glove winner who could be dealt by the end of the Winter Meetings.

If they really want him, don't pussyfoot around. Make them an offer they can't refuse.

Hall of Famer Gaylord Perry, king of the spitball, dead at 84
Updated: Dec. 01, 2022, 12:49 p.m.|Published: Dec. 01, 2022, 12:25 p.m.


By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Hall of Famer Gaylord Perry, the king of the spitball, died Thursday morning at his home in Gaffney, South Carolina. He was 84.

Perry pitched for eight teams over 22 years on his way to winning 314 games and gaining entry to the Hall of Fame in 1991. He did some of his best work with the Indians from 1972 until he was traded to Texas during the 1975 season.

In three plus years in Cleveland, Perry went 70-57 with a 2.71 ERA. He threw 96 complete games in 133 starts.


In 1972 Perry went 24-16 in 41 games, including 40 starts, for Cleveland to become the first Indians pitcher to win a Cy Young award. There would not be another Indians’ Cy Young winner until CC Sabathia in 2007.

“I had a decision (win, loss or save) in every game that year,” Perry told MLB Network, in a tribute of Perry’s career Thursday following his death. “That was my best season.”

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Perry threw 342 2/3 innings and led the American League with 29 complete games in 1972. This season there were only 35 complete games thrown in the entire big leagues.

When Perry reached the big leagues with the Giants in 1962, he struggled. But he recalled watching Dodger pitcher Don Drysdale touching his cap and his hair before he threw a pitch, and listening to his Giants teammates complain that Drysdale must be putting a foreign substance on the ball.


Perry developed his own pre-pitch routine -- which involved touching his cap, face, glove, belt and pants -- and proceeded to worm his way inside hitters’ heads for the rest of his career.


Whenever Perry was asked if he did throw a spitball, according to Russ Schneider’s Cleveland Indians Encyclopedia, he would reply, “That’s for me to know and you to worry about.”

In his autobiograghy “Me and the Spitter” Perry did admit that he sometimes “loaded” the baseball. Mostly, however, it was the threat of the spitball that helped Perry strikeout 3,534 batters in 5,350 innings.

Perry was frequently the target of umpires coming to the mound to search him for a foreign substance at the request of the opposing manager. But he was only ejected once in his career for throwing an illegal pitch.


It happened in 1982 when Perry was pitching for Seattle in a game against the Angels. Dave Phillips was the plate umpire who ejected Perry.

“He didn’t find anything on me or the ball, but when he saw one of my pitches sink about two feet he came running out to the mound and said, ‘That’s it Gaylord, you’re outta here,’” Perry is quoted as saying in the Cleveland Indians Encyclopedia.

Some years later he was asked if he did moisten the pitch that dropped two feet. He said, “I was given a lie detector test by (famed attorney) F. Lee Bailey on television that winter, and they said I passed with flying colors.”

Former umpire Bill Haller, on Perry’s Hall of Fame page in Cooperstown, is quoted as saying, ““I watched Gaylord like a hawk. I’ve never found anything. I’ll tell you what he’s got: a good curve, a fine fastball, a good change, and a fine sinker. I’ll tell you what Perry is: He’s one helluva pitcher, and a fine competitor.”


Perry won 20 or more games five times. He was the first pitcher to win a Cy Young award in both leagues. Following his 1972 award with the Indians, he won the NL version with the Padres in 1978. Perry was 40 when he won his second Cy Young.

On May 6, 1982 Perry pitched Seattle to a 7-3 win over the Yankees for his 300th victory. He was 43.

Gaylord’s brother, Jim, joined him in Cleveland in 1974. Together they recorded 38 of the Indians 77 wins that season. Gaylord and Jim Perry combined for 529 career wins. Only the Niekro brothers, Phil and Joe, have more combined wins with 539.