Cleveland Sports Forum

Nice to see how hard the pitchers worked during the off season and shutdown.

Hitters had a nice vacation.

Perhaps thawing out. And the pitchers continue to amaze.

Well, the thawing out continued in that last Reds' game

Final Thoughts: A mysterious new pitch, a lost trade and an offensive eruption


By Zack Meisel 4h ago 17
CLEVELAND — As Sandy Alomar Jr. exited the Indians’ interview room Thursday night, a reporter asked if he was going to take home the Ohio Cup.

“I don’t play for (that) trophy,” Alomar said. “Only October.”

The Indians once again claimed the trophy, the fraternal twin of the Great Lakes Barge. It was recently redesigned, now a golden spectacle perched atop a wooden base.

Since the advent of interleague play in 1997, the Indians have captured the hardware 11 times. They have retained it (because of a tie in the season series) on seven occasions. The Reds have earned the trophy five times.

(League health and safety protocols prevented Cleveland’s players from sharing champagne out of the cup Thursday night.)

Here are some thoughts on the Tribe.

1. Mike Clevinger kept tossing a mysterious 88 mph pitch Wednesday night. The MLB game feed initially classified them as sliders, but Clevinger’s slider averaged 80.7 mph last season.

So, after the game, I asked Clevinger if he had unveiled a new pitch. He wouldn’t be the first Tribe starter to implement a cutter into his repertoire this season. Shane Bieber’s new cutter is the talk of every Zoom call in town.

Clevinger, though, played coy.

“It seems like a misfired fastball is all,” he said, laughing. “I don’t know. Keeping that cat in the bag as long as possible.”

Whatever it was, he threw 17 of them. That’s a lot of so-called faulty fastballs.

“It kind of has a mind of its own, that pitch,” Clevinger said. “But it’s definitely a fun one to throw.”

Reds hitters offered at the pitch four times. They came up empty four times. Solid results for whatever foreign pitch it was.

I asked Clevinger if he perhaps followed Bieber’s lead. Of course, I didn’t mention Bieber by name, given the highly sensitive nature of this top-secret information.

“It’s low-key kind of a get-out-of-jail-free card when you have some good secondary stuff,” Clevinger said. “So, watching every single starter have one besides me was kind of tell-tale that maybe I needed to work on something between starts. That was the first go-around, so it should get better from here.”

Clevinger usually relies on his curveball and change-up against lefties and his slider against righties. Now, he may have another option. If only we knew what it was …

“It was a cutter,” catcher Sandy León said.

Oh. Well, that settles it.

“It was really good,” León added.

Before Clevinger and León walked out to the bullpen for a pregame warmup session, Clevinger told his catcher he had a new pitch to test, one he had toyed with during summer camp and subsequent bullpen sessions. Both León and pitching coach Carl Willis liked what they saw in the ‘pen, so they included it in their game plan.

“It actually helped his slider,” Willis said. “Once they saw the cutter a few times, they really got in between on the slider.”

2. Baseball often defies logic. To illustrate that point, here are a couple of facts about the Indians’ eruption at the plate Thursday evening:

The Indians’ previous eight games combined: 12 runs scored
The Indians against Cincinnati on Thursday: 13 runs scored

The Indians entering the series finale against the Reds: 12 runs scored in their previous 76 innings
The Indians during the seventh inning of the series finale: 10 runs scored in one inning

That’s baseball.

Cleveland notched its first 10-run inning since an outburst in Kansas City on Sept. 28, 2018.

3. The Trevor Bauer trade garnered all of the attention — and rightfully so, given that one of the Indians’ acquisitions, Yasiel Puig, participated in an on-field melee as the teams finalized the terms of the deal — but Cleveland swung another trade before last year’s deadline. And while investing in Franmil Reyes and Logan Allen and Scott Moss may pay off for the Indians, their trade with the Rays sure looks like it will not.

A few hours after Bauer launched a baseball toward the Kauffman Stadium fountains (and a couple of days before the Indians parted ways with Bauer), the club dealt minor-league outfielder Ruben Cardenas and some international bonus slot money to Tampa Bay for infielder Christian Arroyo and reliever Hunter Wood.

Wood pitched for the Indians last season, but the team designated him for assignment prior to Opening Day. Thursday, the Indians designated Arroyo for assignment to clear a spot for Delino DeShields Jr.

It’s possible Arroyo clears waivers, but as it stands, he has one defensive inning at third base to represent his Cleveland tenure. He spent the first two weeks of the season with the big-league club but never received a plate appearance. He was once a top-100 prospect before he suffered a series of injuries. He’s only 25 years old, and he posted a .984 slash line in 33 games for the Rays’ Triple-A affiliate in 2019.

Cardenas, a former 16th-round pick, spent last season in A-ball, where he logged a .788 OPS.

4. The Indians bullpen has quietly silenced the opposition all season. As a group, Cleveland’s relievers own a 1.34 ERA, with seven walks and 38 strikeouts in 33 2/3 innings. Those not named Brad Hand have allowed just one total earned run in 29 1/3 innings. They have combined to log 17 2/3 scoreless innings over the club’s last eight games.

5. Runs allowed by Tribe starting pitchers in each outing this season: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4

That’s an average of 1.64, which explains how the Indians stand at 8-6 despite unsightly team batting numbers. Paired with the aforementioned bullpen statistics, it’s no wonder the Indians lead the majors (by a significant margin) with a 2.06 ERA. (The Mariners, on the other hand, rank last with a 6.00 team ERA, just for reference.) Cleveland’s starters rank second in the majors in both walks and strikeouts per nine innings.


Quick hits
• José Ramírez’s helmet has fallen off 11 times in 14 games, an unfathomable pace. He became the first Tribe hitter since Joe Carter in 1988 to register two home runs and a triple in the same game.

• Clevinger, on whether he could hear Bauer chirping from the visitors’ dugout during his start Wednesday night: “Yeah, top step and he’s not wearing a mask. So, yeah, you can put that on the books. He was yelling the whole game, talking about me struggling, talking about my knee and shit. I have to give it back.”

• As fate would have it, DeShields’ return to the Indians lineup came with his dad in town. DeShields missed most of summer camp as he recovered from COVID-19. Delino DeShields Sr., who spent 13 years in the majors, coaches first base for the Reds.

“I haven’t played with (my teammates) since March,” DeShields said. “To be able to get on the field and play a real game that matters is fun. It was a really good time, especially with me and my dad being on the same field and getting to talk a little trash.”

• The last six players to claim the coveted Ohio Cup Most Outstanding Player honor:

2020: José Ramírez
2019: Trevor Bauer
2018: José Ramírez
2017: Carlos Santana
2016: Rajai Davis
2015: Jason Kipnis

Another deadline trade last year:

The Indians have acquired righty Phil Maton from the Padres, per a club announcement. International bonus poll space is headed to San Diego in the deal.

Maton's been good. Hard to compare what the Padres got.

Right civ - and who cares? Seems to be good for the Tribe.

Jason Kipnis’ Cleveland homecoming conjures up memories of World Series and more

By Zack Meisel 3h ago 9
CLEVELAND — Jason Kipnis stood on the right-field line and gazed at the scoreboard, where the Indians were flipping through a virtual scrapbook of his nine seasons with the franchise.

They featured his first major-league hit, a walk-off single that Sandy Alomar Jr. chased down so Kipnis could save the keepsake. They compiled his game-ending home runs, his diving stops at second base, his introduction at All-Star Games, his participation in postseason Budweiser bashes, his three-run homer at Wrigley Field in front of his family and a collection of conflicted but supportive friends who double as Cubs fans.

They replayed his mad dash from second base on a wild pitch during Game 7 of the World Series, a 180-foot scamper that jolted awake a sea of Tribe fans at Progressive Field. They capped the two-minute montage with highlights of his dugout dance sessions with Francisco Lindor and his 1,000th career hit, a walk-off grand slam.

When the tribute reached its conclusion, players and coaches in both dugouts stood and applauded. Kipnis spread his arms wide, then raised his cap in the air to thank the cardboard cutouts in attendance.

This wasn’t the homecoming he envisioned — on several levels. He dreamed of playing for his hometown Cubs, but he had no idea it would materialize in 2020 or that he’d be wearing that renowned royal blue upon his first visit to Cleveland as the enemy. And, of course, he never would have guessed he’d do so in an empty ballpark.

There was no standing ovation Tuesday night, aside from the people lining each dugout railing. The Indians played his walk-up song, Ookay’s “Thief,” but not until Adam Plutko had received the sign from his catcher. That only left time for a couple of swift saxophone notes. Kipnis proceeded to smack a double to right field.

Kipnis walked to the ballpark on Tuesday afternoon and was directed to hallways he never knew existed. For nearly a decade, he had grown accustomed to parking in the players’ lot, walking down a narrow staircase and navigating the tunnel that led to the home clubhouse.

“I’m like, ‘Aw, that’s what this looks like, this place?’” Kipnis said. “I’ve been in the visiting clubhouse but not the cages or the weight room or any of these little hallways, these nooks and crannies.”

Cubs first baseman Anthony Rizzo even offered him a tour.

“(He walked) me through where ‘I celebrated here. I celebrated here,’” Kipnis said. “I’m like, ‘Thanks, buddy. I get it.’”

In the 120-year history of the franchise, only 22 players have appeared in more games in a Cleveland uniform than Kipnis. The Indians drafted him in the second round in 2009 out of Arizona State, an outfielder who ultimately converted to second base. He earned a pair of All-Star nods and regularly found his name near the top of the batting order, whether it was constructed by Manny Acta or Terry Francona.

Prior to the 2014 season, Kipnis signed a six-year, $52.5 million contract extension. The pact included a $16.5 million club option for 2020, but by the time the 2019 season arrived, both sides knew it would be Kipnis’ swan song in Cleveland.

The Indians declined the option and, well, that was that.

“My phone never rang — I’ll put it that way,” Kipnis said.

They moved on to César Hernández, who signed a one-year deal to hold down second base until Nolan Jones arrives. Kipnis signed with the Cubs in mid-February.

“I get it. It’s a business,” Kipnis said. “The longer you play, the more you learn about the business side of things. If you’re going to take everything personally, you’re going to have a lot of grudges and just have that weigh down on you.”


When Kipnis broke into the majors in 2011, he shared a clubhouse with Jack Hannahan, Matt LaPorta, Shelley Duncan, Ubaldo Jiménez and the artist formerly known as Fausto Carmona. He supplanted Orlando Cabrera at second base. He forged friendships with Lonnie Chisenhall, Michael Brantley, Carlos Carrasco, Carlos Santana and Josh Tomlin. He developed a close bond with Vinnie Pestano, who became his locker mate and roommate.

Kipnis evolved into part of the team’s core, alongside players such as Santana, Brantley, Corey Kluber and Yan Gomes. By the end of his tenure, another class of young players had graduated into the club’s nucleus. Many of the veteran mainstays had departed. During spring training in 2019, Kipnis joked that he needed to go locker to locker to introduce himself to all of the unfamiliar faces.

Kipnis and Carrasco have long maintained a close relationship. When Carrasco was cramming for the U.S. Citizenship test in 2016, Kipnis constantly quizzed him at their lockers and on team flights. Last summer, when Carrasco was diagnosed with chronic myeloid leukemia, he called Kipnis, who reassured him everything would be OK as he frantically sifted through Google searches to locate simple ways to explain the disease.

After Carrasco made his emotional return to the mound last September, Kipnis handed him a couple of baseballs to store as souvenirs, told him how proud he was of him and the two embraced. They still communicate, with Kipnis regularly checking in to ask Carrasco how he feels and if he’s been taking his meds.

“I got to witness the shitty part of it, the shitty days, and there’s no other word to describe it,” Kipnis said. “You just see an awful disease taking over someone’s body. He was getting skinny, his energy was down. You can attest when you see Cookie’s energy is down, there’s something wrong. This guy is a high-energy guy and a clown to go with it.”

For the first time, they squared off in a major-league game on Wednesday. Kipnis pleaded with Carrasco to gift him “a friendship fastball” that he could yank into the right-field seats.

“The funny part is, I think it’s going behind my head,” Kipnis predicted. “I can’t tell if he’s joking or not. He wants me to charge (the mound) so I can give him a hug.”

Instead, Carrasco walked Kipnis on four pitches in their first encounter.

Kipnis made one other declaration: “If he strikes me out, he’s going to pay for it some way or another.”

With a pair of runners aboard in the fourth, Kipnis chased a curveball in the dirt, allowing Carrasco to secure a critical strikeout. Kipnis put his head down and retreated to the visitors dugout. A few minutes later, he trotted out to his position at second base, jogging through the same patch of grass where many of his new teammates formed a dogpile four years ago.


When he walks around his new home ballpark, Kipnis can’t escape reminders of 2016. He said he has to “keep reliving it,” which “kind of sucks.” He also stressed how much he enjoyed the Indians’ voyage through October that year.

“It’s years ago, but that game is never going to go away,” Kipnis said. “It’s part of who I am now, and the memories that I have (will) last a lifetime.”

In Kipnis’ final trip to the batter’s box in the series, he slapped an RBI double to left field to spoil James Karinchak’s previously unblemished ERA. Francona used to prattle on about how Kipnis was at his best when he peppered the left-field wall with opposite-field hits.

When he reached second base, Kipnis peered toward the Indians dugout and tipped the lid of his helmet.

“He (was) a good Cleveland Indian,” Francona said, “for a long time.”

Finally: He needs time away to work on how to hit again. Not needed for CF with DeShields healthy.

CLEVELAND -- Indians outfielder Oscar Mercado made quite the first impression during a solid rookie season, but after his slow offensive start to his sophomore campaign this year, the team will be relying on Delino DeShields in center field for the immediate future.

The Tribe announced on its off-day on Monday that Mercado was optioned to its alternate training site in Lake County. The team has yet to make a corresponding move to fill his spot on the 28-man roster.

In 115 games in 2019, Mercado slashed .269/.318/.443 with 15 homers and 54 RBIs, but through 45 at-bats in 2020, the outfielder has hit .111 with a .278 OPS.

The Indians went five games without starting Mercado from Aug. 8 through Friday, as they attempted to work on his swing in the batting cages. After he started seeing better results in batting practice, Indians manager Terry Francona put Mercado back in the starting lineup on Saturday.

“Well, he had gotten himself into a rut,” Francona said prior to Saturday’s game. “And he felt like he was pulling off. So he kind of closed his stance, but then that made him pull off more. And I understand it. I mean, I've been through that. So we're trying to get him to kind of be more balanced, more even.”

Mercado went 0-for-3 on Saturday and finished out Sunday’s game as a defensive replacement in the ninth inning.

DeShields is the kind of guy whom it's easy to look at his numbers and yawn.

But when you watch him play you get it. The guy does a lot of things quite well. Of course his genetics are amazing and shoot the guy can bunt! And run!

Lost arts these days but arts that have helped us win. Oh, and that defense!

would welcome someone in the OF corners who could fill those roles; I thought we had one in Luplow but he's been no less of a dud this year than Mercado in center. And those first round draft picks, Zimmer, Naquin, who are forever just about ready to break through, or do for a bit before literally hitting the wall,

Certainly Reyes is fine for a corner outfielder. And Naquin - until he gets injured again. Not if, but when.

Every team is built differently - ours just happens to have excellent talent in the infield.

Oh, and the starting pitching.

PS - let's get on with in with Clevinger/Plesac. They didn't get the virus and for all we know they acted safely and responsibly (as Plesac claimed on the Instagram) when they went out - although it was obviously ill advised.

They have more than served their punishments. Time to stop punishing the fans and team with not having them pitch.

Reyes in the outfield would be OK but then we'd have no one else to DH who can hit.

Clev and Plesac are required to spend 10 days in the "alternative site" but that will get them back by the time we need as 5th starter. Of course, they're both better than Plutko but we'll have to put up with him only more start and Logan Allen not at all if they don't choose to punish the guys with the delayed service time as was noted above.

Trades, grievances or a reunion: What’s next in the Plesac/Clevinger saga?

By Zack Meisel and Jason Lloyd 2h ago 11

A week and a half ago, the Indians’ rotation appeared invincible, unwilling to surrender to the most imposing lineups and prolific enough to largely offset a bumbling batting order.
Now, the most common question to pop up in Cleveland baseball conversations is whether two members of that rotation — which owns, far and away, the best ERA in the sport (2.70) — will pitch again for the Indians this season. Or, ever.

The discussion regarding Zach Plesac and Mike Clevinger might have faded by now had Clevinger admitted his error in judgment prior to boarding the team flight back from Chicago and had Plesac not starred in a six-minute episode of “Taxicab Confessions.”

How the events unfolded last week ultimately led to a contentious meeting at the team hotel last Friday morning. Clevinger and Plesac drove up to Michigan separately, unsure if either or both of them would be welcomed back to the roster. Instead, they returned home, booted to the club’s alternate site in Eastlake.

That leaves a host of questions about what comes next in this seemingly never-ending saga. Will they be trade fodder? Will they return after the mandatory 10-day minor-league stay? Could this mess with their service time, and would that prompt a grievance?
Jason, what stands out to you now about this situation? For as much drama as this story has provided thus far, it’s possible that the most fascinating developments have yet to surface.

Jason: Without question, it’s the service-time issue. This could get ugly. Now, to be clear, the Indians can recall both Plesac and Clevinger next week, and they could muddle through the rest of this season together as a grumbling, dysfunctional unit that still performs at a high level. Think Ricky Vaughn and Roger Dorn. Kevin Love and Dwyane Wade. Not everyone has to like each other. Sometimes, you just have to shut up and do your job.
In fact, I tend to think that’s exactly how this will go.

However, if the organization is really done with one (or both) of them, manipulating the service time could be devastating to both financially. As it is, Clevinger is in his first year of arbitration. He was set to earn $4.1 million, but the pandemic has cut that to less than $2 million. Holding him down long enough to deny him his year of service time will inevitably bring on a grievance, but so what? The Indians could actually inflate his trade value by creating the extra year of team control and then trading him. A grievance would have little bearing on any of that.

But it would compromise the team’s chances of winning this season, and this is still a very, very good baseball team with legitimate hopes of reaching the playoffs. Plesac and Clevinger are both big parts of that.

Clevinger, 29, is a late bloomer in baseball terms who won’t reach free agency until he’s 32. If the Indians push that another year … There is precedent for a 33-year-old pitcher striking a big deal in free agency (Hyun-Jin Ryu’s four-year, $80 million deal last winter with the Blue Jays), but there aren’t many recent examples.

Zack: When we discussed this topic over the winter, Clevinger pointed to Ryu, Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer as pitchers who have maintained their ability into their 30s and received lucrative contracts as a reward. And though he has suffered a couple of notable injuries the last two years, he contends that the way he trains year-round should keep him effective for a long time.

Chris Antonetti and Mike Chernoff have stressed that the decision to send Clevinger and Plesac to Eastlake simply places the best roster on the field for the time being. Of course, they have to offer that explanation. As baseball’s Miranda rights go, anything you say may be used against you in a grievance filing.

Even if it’s true that the service-time wrinkle wasn’t a consideration, it sure could be a convenient perk. One source indicated Clevinger sits about 27 major-league days shy of four years of service time.

If they don’t intend on stowing the two hurlers at the satellite camp for long, how will the reinstatement process work? Will they need to gauge the temperature in the clubhouse? Will another team meeting or a vote be required? Or will teammates’ frustrations have subsided by then? I asked Chernoff about those plans on Tuesday.

“I don’t know what the factors might be or how exactly we’ll navigate that,” he said, “but I know that we’ll come together and we’ll figure it out as a group like we always try to.”

This is the part of the equation that hasn’t been covered yet. Adam Plutko said it would be up to Clevinger and Plesac to figure out how to earn back their teammates’ trust. How will they accomplish that while stationed at Classic Park?

Jason: If the Indians want to take winning seriously this year, Plesac and Clevinger have to be in Cleveland, not Eastlake. Yes, they screwed up. No, Plesac’s video didn’t help. Yes, sending them to the alternate camp absolutely delivers a strong message to both of them.
But if winning games is the ultimate goal, Plesac and Clevinger sitting in Eastlake for the long term doesn’t help that cause.

Trading one or both of them right now doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, either. It’s hard to see an active trade deadline this year across the league given all the uncertainty, not to mention the limited players available since teams can only trade from their 60-player pools this summer.

There are no current scouting reports, no minor-league games to watch. If the Indians trade such key pieces now, how will they know if the player(s) they are acquiring can help right now? Let’s not forget, Francisco Lindor’s contract clock is still ticking, so time is of the essence.

I think a trade, ultimately, of Clevinger this winter makes sense. There were too many rumors involving him last winter to believe the Indians weren’t at least earnestly listening — even before all this. And we’ve already laid out the age component and why the Indians might be hesitant to lock him up long term.

The Padres have a terrific farm system and an excellent rapport with the Indians’ front office (four trades between them in the last two years). The Yankees have spare parts that would look awfully good in this lineup. And just imagine the hilarity of sending Clevinger to Houston after everything that was said over the winter?

Bottom line: There are plenty of trade partners seeking pitching, and Clevinger’s trade value should be relatively high with another two (or three?) years of team control. This incident won’t tarnish his value. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to trade him or Plesac within the next couple of weeks.

Our experts agree that the Indians trading Zach Plesac seems unlikely at the moment. (Kirby Lee / USA Today)

Zack: I’d throw the Braves onto your list, too. They match up quite well as a potential trade partner.

The Indians will need to tab a fifth starter to pitch Saturday, and that won’t be Plesac or Clevinger unless they replace an injured teammate on the roster. Logan Allen could be a logical choice given that he’s on the roster and, well, he’s a starting pitcher. He’s also a 23-year-old rookie, so who knows how he’ll fare?

It’s difficult to see the Indians bailing on Plesac given his ability — he flashed brilliance in his three starts before all of this — and his lack of service time or hefty salary. He’s also just 25. Clevinger did always seem like one of those carrots the Indians could dangle this winter. This doesn’t guarantee that the front office expedites his departure, though. Many link the Trevor Bauer trade to his infamous long toss as if the Indians hadn’t already been shopping him. They thought they had a deal done a month before they actually traded him to Cincinnati.

So, surely some teams will inquire about his availability over the next two weeks. It’ll be up to Antonetti and Chernoff to determine what makes the most sense while taking this winter’s trade market and next year’s roster into consideration. The shortened season only complicates matters, too. Teams will be sharing intel on their alternate-site players via a new league initiative, and there are ways to sneak non-player-pool prospects into trades, but there are many risks and abnormal variables involved during this trade season.

“We don’t have the luxury of time to make those types of decisions,” Chernoff said. “As I talk to other GMs and Chris talks to other guys, we’re hearing the same thing from them. The biggest factor is trying to get a really good assessment of where our own guys are and where we might need to make tweaks to the roster. That’s a much harder thing to do in a 20-25 game sample.”

Obviously, the Indians could use some outfield help. (That was an annually scheduled sentence.) But perhaps it would be easier to execute such a trade this winter. Or, maybe, the Indians just wind up holding onto both pitchers for the long haul.

Jason: It has been a difficult few months for the Indians. From Terry Francona’s health issues to the name-change controversy to Ty Van Burkleo and Brad Mills opting out of the restart and now this, the Indians can’t stay out of the news right now.

For the first time in years, this Plesac/Clevinger fiasco has them resembling the other two unstable franchises in town. This is unlike the Indians, which is why I’m confident they’ll figure out a way to get these guys back in Cleveland and helping the club win games again. At least for now.

Zack: That would behoove everyone. Plesac’s video seemed to indicate a lack of awareness about his teammates’ disposition toward the matter. That should no longer be the case after the team meeting and the lonely trek home that followed. Clevinger said in July that enforcement of the team’s code of conduct would be an in-house operation, handled by the players. He was right. And now we wait to learn their ultimate fate.

PS - I personally bolded the sentence that said "unless they replace an injured teammate".

Remember they could cook up an injury and then the 10 day thing does not apply.

Especially for a pitcher.

Oh...so and so has a "inflamed forearm" and we need to replace him.

Not unlikely Zimmer will hurt something soon; Naquin's already had his mandatory annual injury.

I'm not sure civ but it probably needs to be a direct replacement for an injured guy. As in a pitcher replacing a pitcher.

Again, I am not sure on that one.

That said, pitcher injuries are so easy to manufacture. How many DON'T have a sore arm/inflammation?? So you replace some reliever you used the day before because his arm is inflamed.