Cleveland Sports Forum

What about those replays?

http://thesportsquotient.com/mlb/2017/2 ... alk-should

After a batter has 2 strikes, three foul balls is an out

When I was a kid, we were all sure that the official rule was "99 fouls and you're out"

Where did the rule "bunting foul after 2 strikes is an out" come from? Must have been somebody continuously bunting foul to wear the pitcher out.

Why is a third bunt foul an out?

Bryan Walko, Amateur baseball historian.
Updated 3 Nov 2016
Bunts and early baseball

In the early game (1860s and prior), all foul balls were simply dead balls - they were neither balls nor strikes. While bunting is first documented in baseball in 1860, similar bat-and-ball games going back to the 1830s have hitting strategies that are like bunting.


The bunt practically vanished in baseball in the 1870s, so much so that when Arlie Latham returned the practice to the game, he was widely regarded as having invented it. This reemergence happened between 1884 and 1886.

The new strategy

Almost immediately, batters and managers realized that a bunt had three great things going for it.

You could get an easy hit when the infielders played far back in the field.

You could advance the runner on an out.

You could easily foul off the pitcher's best pitches indefinitely.

The third idea was so popular that, to the fans and press in Chicago (who Latham's team played against in the 1886 postseason), bunting was practically synonymous with a cheap way to get out of hitting a hurler's best offerings. Hitters had already been doing this with full swings, so much that a rule that allowed a fielder to catch a foul on the first bounce and record an out wasn't removed from the books until the early 1880s. It was legal, but regarded as unsportsmanlike (both the purposeful bunt fouls and swing fouls).

It wasn't uncommon for a batter to deliberately bunt 5 or 6 pitches off for the sole purpose of wasting pitches. In the 1886 postseason, in Latham's first at bat he bunted 10 fouls before striking out.

The immediate backlash

A new rule was put in the books after 1886. An umpire could now call a strike on "any obvious attempt to make a foul hit."

This helped, but it was made a judgement call on the part of the umpire and thus the umpire would call a strike only in the most blatant cases.

Later, the rule was amended that "the unskilled will be charged with a strike for fouling off whether through intention or inexpertness." But it was still a judgment call for the umpire.

In 1894, bunts are treated differently from swinging - and this is when a third foul bunt became an out.

In 1894, NL president Nick Young told the umpires to call a strike on any foul bunt. At this point, you have a divergence - all foul bunts are strikes, but swinging fouls are judgment calls as to whether or not a strike is issued.

The swinging fouls get their day or reckoning

Umpires weren't comfortable with making a judgement on swinging fouls and it was a rule that was never actually enforced. Skilled players could swing and foul ad nauseum without penalty.

The tactic remained unpopular with league officials, fans and players (when it was the opposing team doing it).

So, in 1901, the National League ruled that any foul with less than two strikes would be a strike. (The American league instituted this rule in 1903.)

There was a lot of rancor that it would increase the number of strikeouts and curtail offense and it did. But the leagues didn't want to return to the days of endless fouls. (If you look at the data, an average NL game from 1900 to 1901 would have 2.8 more strikeouts and 1.1 less runs between the two teams - in the AL from 1902 to 1903, a game would see 2.6 more strikeouts and 1.6 less runs.)

At this point, you now have the modern system. All fouls are strikes for the first and second strike, but only a bunt can count as a third strike. But de facto from 1894-1901, foul bunts were always strikes while foul swings were not.

It's somewhat backwards in the evolution you would assume - you would think that at some point a player could have bunted strike 1 and strike 2 and then keep bunting free of penalty and then someone got sick of the tactic and instituted a third strike foul bunt. But in reality, the foul bunt was so despised during the early game that its penalties were put into the rulebook before the modern swinging bunt strike rules were codified.

interesting report. But nothing on the 99 fouls and you're out rule??

Indians have hired Grady Sizemore as a player development advisor.

He'll assist big-league staff before moving over to minor league camp in March. He'll then be a special assistant during the regular season.

Left-hander Brian Flynn, a candidate to possibly make the Royals' bullpen, will miss at least eight weeks after sustaining a broken rib while falling through the roof of a barn at his home.

It can happen any time any place..... like slicing your finger off during playoff time

Chris Tillman, Baltimore's Opening Day starter the past three seasons, received a platelet rich plasma (PRP) injection in December for lingering shoulder issues and will not be ready by Opening Day.

Coached Little League for over 35 years and never had a kid sustain an on-the-field injury that required more than an ice pack or band aid. Had plenty of kids sustain serious off-the-field injuries like falling off decks and dirt bike accidents.

Shit happens!

Another lefty added to the mix.


On Tuesday, Cleveland signed lefty Chris Narveson to a Minor League contract that included a non-roster invitation to attend Spring Training with the Major League club. One day earlier, the team reached an agreement with left-hander James Russell on the same type of deal, which is pending a physical.
The Indians have not confirmed or commented on the deal with Russell. With Narveson and Russell added to the fold, the Indians will have 20 non-roster invitees, bringing their camp total to 60 players. [enough to stock the Indians, the Clippers, and 1/2 of the Akron rosters

The 35-year-old Narveson appeared in six games last year with Miami and logged 20 games (15 starts) with Triple-A New Orleans, where he posted a 3.41 ERA in his stint. Narveson has spent parts of eight season in the Majors with the Cardinals, Brewers and Marlins, turning in a 4.71 ERA in 118 games (65 starts) in that span. For his career, the southpaw has held lefty batters to a .220 average (.643 OPS) in the big leagues.

Russell, 31, spent the bulk of last season with Triple-A Lehigh Valley, where he posted a 4.29 ERA in 29 appearances (13 starts). In parts of seven seasons in the Majors, the left-hander has turned in a 4.09 ERA in 394 games between stints with the Cubs, Braves and Phillies. He has held lefty batters to a .248 (.700 OPS) showing in that time. Russell appeared in seven games with Philadelphia last year and has a 6.81 ERA over the past two seasons (56 games) combined.

When's pitchers and catchers?

VT'er wrote:When's pitchers and catchers?

They arrived a few days ago!

CLEVELAND - Spring is more than 35 days away, but right now the Cleveland Indians are gearing up for spring training in Goodyear, Arizona.

Today the team's pitchers and catchers reported to the Goodyear facilities to begin their training. They are set to practice for the first time on Tuesday, Feb. 14 with the full team reporting for practice on Thursday, Feb. 16.

To celebrate, the team is throwing Tribe fans their annual spring training party. The festivities are being held at the Clevelander, on Huron, from 4-6 p.m.

One fan will win two tickets to Indians' home opener, scheduled for April 11 at 4:10 p.m. against the White Sox.

The Tribe will play their first spring training game on Feb. 25 against the Cincinnati Reds at Goodyear Ball Park.

George "The Animal" Steele passed away today.

Who is going to chew the turnbuckle padding now?

Arizona baseball team takes on “Major League” at Cleveland Indians former Spring Training home -- Hi Corbett Field

Now home to the Arizona Wildcats, Hi Corbett Field served as the Spring Training home of the Cleveland Indians from 1947 until the club moved to Winter Haven in 1993.

The Tribe’s tenure at Hi Corbett is the longest for any spring training site. Leading up to 1947, the club held spring training in New Orleans, San Antonio and Lafayette (Ind). However, by 1946, the club was exploring their options. In a July edition of the Plain Dealer, it was reported that “Veeck Says Indians May Do Spring Training in Tucson….[Veeck] said that he would try to have a second major league team agree to train at Phoenix so the two could meet in practice games.”

Several weeks later it was announced that Tucson was home. The Plain Dealer reported on July 26, 1946 that the “Cleveland Indians will establish their 1947 spring training camp at Tucson, Ariz., an hour’s flying time from Phoenix, Ariz., where the New York Giants will be quartered.”

Interestingly enough, Veeck’s home ranch was located only 22 miles from Tucson.

In 1993 the Tribe moved to Winter Haven, Florida after the Boston Red Sox left the area. In 2009, the Tribe moved back to Arizona, but not to Hi Corbett. In 2012, the Arizona Wildcats began to call Hi Corbett home on a full-time basis.

The interconnection between the Tribe, Wildcats, and Hi Corbett have come together in a wonderful homage to the movie Major League. So sit back and enjoy the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-vtHey ... e=youtu.be