Cleveland Sports Forum

“He looks pitcher-ish. He doesn’t look like an outfielder. He doesn’t look like a thrower,” said Plutko, who watched Gose throw breaking balls in 2-1 and 3-2 counts in a spring game a couple of weeks ago. “If you aren’t comfortable being a pitcher, you’d throw a fastball there.

That struck me when I saw him pitch an inning vs. Angels. If I hadn't known he had been a position player I wouldn't have guessed it and I looked closely. He throws a nice breaking ball and of course pops the glove with the fastball. But just his demeanor seemed pitcher-like. Would be nice to catch a good break with this guy.

Willie Smith pitched and played OF and IB for the Angels and a little for the Indians in the 60s.

And if I recall correctly the Red Sox had a really talented Lefty back in the 1910's who later did OK as an outfielder especially with the Yankees.

Trade tree: How Indians turned a waiver claim into 30 years of All-Star talent By Zack Meisel Mar 17, 2020 14
Four days before the Indians began the 1991 season, they selected a young, rather anonymous Reds catcher off the waiver wire.

Sandy Alomar Jr. was an All-Star, a Gold Glove winner and the American League Rookie of the Year for Cleveland in 1990. He was firmly entrenched as the club’s catcher of the future. The Indians had Joel Skinner, a veteran backup, as well. But for depth purposes — which came in handy, as injuries limited Alomar to 51 games in 1991 — the Indians claimed Eddie Taubensee from Cincinnati on April 4.

Taubensee spent most of the ’91 campaign at Class AAA Colorado Springs, a team managed by Charlie Manuel. The Indians summoned Taubensee for his first few big-league stints, including one that lasted the final month of the season.

The Indians amassed a 57-105 record in 1991, but Dan O’Dowd, then the club’s director of player development, pointed to that year as the first bit of evidence the organization was headed in the proper direction. One key decision that spurred some momentum: the trade of Taubensee to the Houston Astros.

With that move, perhaps the most prolific trade tree in Indians history sprouted its first branch.

Dec. 10, 1991: Indians trade Eddie Taubensee and Willie Blair to the Astros for Kenny Lofton and Dave Rohde
Lofton hit in the minors. He stole bases. He racked up 17 triples in 1991. But the Astros bid him farewell, which allowed the Indians to fare well. The trade was, well, unfair.

In his first five seasons with Cleveland, Lofton led the league in stolen bases. He finished second in the AL Rookie of the Year balloting in 1992, even though he bested Milwaukee’s Pat Listach in nearly every worthwhile category.
(Baseball-Reference)

Lofton blossomed into a perennial All-Star, Gold Glove winner and ultimately became one of the most well-rounded, productive outfielders in franchise history. In the strike-shortened 1994 season, Lofton racked up 160 hits, 53 extra-base hits and 60 stolen bases in 112 games, batting .349 with a .948 OPS.

“He had a chance to be the AL MVP that year,” O’Dowd told me. … “He was simply dominating games on both sides of the ball, but no one remembers that or talks about that. I wonder if that strike didn’t happen, if Kenny did win the MVP that year, if the whole Hall of Fame situation for him would’ve changed. He was like a human highlight film.”

We’ll never know his true Hall of Fame potential because he landed on the ballot the same year as Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, and the bulk of the conversations revolved around their candidacies. Lofton garnered only 3.2 percent of the vote and dropped off the ballot. He has regularly voiced his displeasure about the matter. That said, his numbers are comparable to Tim Raines’ statistics, and Raines earned induction in 2017.

Taubensee, meanwhile, pieced together a solid 11-year career, the majority of which he spent with Cincinnati, though he did make a brief return to Cleveland. Ten years after the trade, Taubensee lifted Lofton over his shoulder, an iconic snapshot in Indians lore, as the team celebrated a historic comeback in capping its 15-14 win against the Mariners on Aug. 5, 2001.

“It was just a natural reaction,” Taubensee told me a few years ago. “I grabbed him and picked him up. He scored the winning run. I wanted to carry him around and celebrate. It was kind of surreal being there in 2001. When I was there in ’91, I was the one traded to Houston for Kenny Lofton. Then, that happened.”

Ah, but we can’t revisit the tale of Lofton’s tenure in Cleveland without mentioning the shocking trade that surfaced as spring training sputtered to the finish line in 1997. After all, that’s how this trade tree continued to grow.
(David Maxwell / Getty Images)
March 25, 1997: Indians trade Kenny Lofton and Alan Embree to the Braves for David Justice and Marquis Grissom
Seventeen months after Justice downed the Indians in Game 6 of the World Series, he was Cleveland bound. Lofton eventually re-signed with the Indians after the ’97 season, so this plan worked in John Hart’s favor. Still, a trade of this magnitude, sealed just eight days before the regular season? No one saw it coming, and Lofton was quite disheartened.

One of the top highlights of his career, Lofton said, was being introduced as a National League All-Star at Jacobs Field in July 1997.

“For me to come back and get the reception I got,” Lofton told me last year, “it was very touching.”

Grissom lasted just the one year in Cleveland. Justice, tasked with replacing Albert Belle’s production, finished fifth in the AL MVP voting in 1997, and he spent 3.5 years in the middle of the Indians’ batting order. During that time, he posted a .294/.392/.526 slash line.

June 29, 2000: Indians trade David Justice to the Yankees for Ricky Ledee, Jake Westbrook and Zach Day
The Indians had tumbled 8.5 games behind the White Sox in the AL Central. The Yankees were treading water in the AL East. And so the teams that had accounted for the five previous AL pennants struck a deal. Justice said he was “stunned.” Hart explained the trade as “simple economics,” while stressing that the team still expected to contend in 2000 and ’01. (They wound up one game shy of a playoff berth in 2000, but returned to AL Central prominence in 2001.)

One month later, the Indians shipped Ledee to the Rangers for David Segui, who hit .332 with an .881 OPS over the final 57 games. Day never pitched for the Indians; he had some success in the minors, but a year later the Indians flipped him to the Expos for outfielder Milton Bradley.

Westbrook proved to be the jewel of the trade for the Indians. He was an All-Star for the club in 2004, when he logged a 3.38 ERA over 215 innings. He lasted in Cleveland for a decade, until he stood two months from free agency and the rebuilding team wanted to recoup something (anything) for him.

July 31, 2010: Indians trade Jake Westbrook to the Cardinals in three-team deal that sends Corey Kluber to Cleveland
Kluber’s name was missing from every top prospects list. Indians scouts had watched him pitch a few times. They liked his strikeout rate, but he often pitched with plenty of traffic on the bases.

This was a low-risk endeavor; they couldn’t make an outrageous request for two months of Westbrook’s services. So, they scooped up Kluber and, a few years later, he bloomed into a Cy Young winner.

Kluber posted a 3.16 ERA over nine seasons with the Indians, with four top-three finishes in the Cy Young voting, including two victories. He’s the only pitcher in team history to win the award on multiple occasions. Kluber anchored a rotation that steered the Indians to three consecutive division titles.

Dec. 15, 2019: Indians trade Corey Kluber to the Rangers for Emmanuel Clase and Delino DeShields
The trade didn’t win any popularity contests in Cleveland, but the Indians exercised Kluber’s club option for 2020 so they could flip him for younger, cheaper players. Whether they received enough in return largely rests with Clase’s right arm. His cutter outpaces the fastest vehicles on the autobahn.

If Kluber has any juice remaining in his right arm, winning this trade will be a tall order for Cleveland. Clase’s potential is tantalizing, but there’s plenty of unknown, given that he’s only 21 (he turns 22 on Wednesday) and relievers are difficult to project.

If Clase flourishes, the Indians can point back to that waiver claim 30 years ago as the gift that keeps giving. To this point, for Taubensee, the Indians have received a decade of Lofton, a few years of Justice, a decade of Westbrook and a decade of Kluber.

Next week: How Russell “The Muscle” Branyan turned into Franmil “La Mole” Reyes

Well to totally judge that string of deals you'd have to include the other players included both coming and going, but I cannot deny that Eddie for Kenny; Justice for Westbrook; Westbrook for Kluber worked out darned well. Maybe 10 years from now we'll add Corey for Clase who by then has been a multi-time Reliever of the Year?

Me too.

Tribe certainly has made good trades. Improving players on your team is the way to win championships. Unfortunately, better players have not resulted a WS win for the Tribe.

Teams win championships, not players.

Keep trying.

If they play an 80 game season and win the title do they get an asterisk?

Talk about some seriously unbalanced schedules.

An 80 game season could mean that you play every team in your division 20 times. That could be very interesting!!!!

Sorry to be a downer.

Just wishing won't make it so.

Playing baseball before this covid pandemic abates and the economy recovers is a pipe dream.

Going to be long time before we see crowd supported sporting events again.

very likely to be right;
Most optimistic result: The Chinese experience is that after 2+ months they're having few infections and starting to end some restrictions. If we can get the same result there should be baseball by July 4. Starts are trying to be pretty proactive. I'm quite impressed with Gov DeWine in Ohio.

Then there is this:
https://www.si.com/mlb/indians/opinion/ ... nd-indians

Next in line:

Trade tree: How one slugger (Russell Branyan) became another (Franmil Reyes)
By Zack Meisel 4h ago 7

As a 20-year-old in A-ball, Russell Branyan socked 40 home runs. The club’s seventh-round selection in the 1994 amateur draft, Branyan never bloomed into a well-rounded, imposing, middle-of-the-order bat, but he did supply enough power to earn the nickname “Russell the Muscle.”

And he did serve as the root of a trade tree that involves a couple of complex three-team exchanges.

June 7, 2002: Indians trade Russell Branyan to the Reds for Ben Broussard
By this point, the Indians knew what they had in Branyan: a swing that produced enough power to propel baseballs to Lake Erie and enough wind energy to fuel the ballpark lights. His profile might have jibed better with the recent rise of the three true outcomes.

The Indians and Reds had completed a handful of trades in previous years. They swapped Sean Casey and Dave Burba, Jim Brower and Eddie Taubensee and John Smiley/Jeff Branson for Danny Graves, Damian Jackson, Scott Winchester and Jim Crowell.

Broussard was a second-round pick who racked up doubles, home runs and walks as he climbed through Cincinnati’s system. When Jim Thome bid Cleveland farewell after the 2002 season, Broussard stepped in as the Indians’ first baseman. In five seasons with Cleveland, Broussard logged a .268/.332/.468 slash line.

A few fun facts about Broussard:

1. He slugged the first home run of his career, June 26, 2002, against Pedro Martinez at Fenway Park.
2. He hit three grand slams in a span of seven weeks in 2004, including two as a pinch-hitter.
3. He plays the guitar — he brought it with him on road trips — and he released two albums, “Ben Broussard” and “Renovated.”

Branyan, by the way, rejoined the Indians for two months in 2004, for two days in 2007, for a few months in 2010 and for the final month of his career in 2014.

July 26, 2006: Indians trade Ben Broussard to the Mariners for Shin-Soo Choo and Shawn Nottingham
Four weeks earlier, the Indians traded Eduardo Perez to the Mariners for Asdrubal Cabrera. This is not a summer stretch then-Seattle GM Bill Bavasi should stick on his resume.

The Indians had Ryan Garko ready to handle first base, so Broussard became expendable, even during a career year. At the time of the trade, Broussard was batting .321 with an .880 OPS. He struggled upon his relocation to the Pacific Northwest, and a dreadful August sent Seattle spiraling from the periphery of the playoff race to the AL West basement.

Choo was a productive minor-league hitter, with the numbers the Indians would come to expect — a lot of walks and a lot of doubles, leading to a healthy batting average and a high on-base percentage.

Nottingham, a graduate of Jackson High School near Massillon, Ohio, spent 2 1/2 years in the Indians system, but he never reached the majors.

Dec. 11, 2012: In three-team deal with the Reds and Diamondbacks, Indians trade away Shin-Soo Choo, Jason Donald, Tony Sipp and Lars Anderson and acquire Trevor Bauer, Bryan Shaw, Matt Albers and Drew Stubbs
Two months after the club hired Terry Francona, the Indians brass convened in Nashville at the Winter Meetings. They were on the hunt for starting pitching depth behind Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez. Tribe pitchers ranked last in the AL in 2012 with a 4.78 ERA.

The Indians knew the Diamondbacks were dangling Bauer, who was 21 and had fallen out of favor with the Arizona organization. The Indians had scouted Bauer prior to the 2011 draft. Antonetti had even spoken to him on the phone. Arizona selected Bauer with the No. 3 pick; the Indians settled on some shortstop named Francisco Lindor five choices later.

“We had a very robust dossier on Trevor before he became a professional,” Chris Antonetti said, “and we definitely referenced that at the time we were looking to trade.”
Trevor Bauer (Ken Blaze / USA Today)
The Indians and Diamondbacks talked throughout that week’s convention, but the dialogue stalled. Arizona sought a shortstop to replace its aging combination of Willie Bloomquist and John McDonald. The Indians didn’t have an expendable shortstop, so they roped in the Reds. Their young shortstop, Didi Gregorius, appealed to the Diamondbacks. And Cincinnati coveted Choo, who was represented by Scott Boras and intended to hit the free-agent market the following year.

Executives from the three teams never gathered in Nashville. Instead, Antonetti served as the mediator, placing separate calls to Arizona’s Kevin Towers and Cincinnati’s Walt Jocketty to steer the conversation toward a three-team deal.

“It’s a lot of putting all the pieces together,” Antonetti said, “like, ‘OK, we think this might work. Will it work for you?’ ‘OK, this works for you, this other piece doesn’t, so how do we figure it out?’ Usually there’s one of the teams that’s kind of helping put the pieces together, but that’s not always the case. A lot of it just depends on who the teams are, what their trading histories have been, what the dynamics between the different teams are.”

About a week after the meetings, the teams finalized the trade, which had ballooned to nine players, rather than the initial three. Bauer was halfway through a burrito at Chipotle when he received the news via a phone call. Shaw was driving through the Arizona desert when a voicemail notification popped up on his phone. Shaw had spotty service when he returned Towers’ call. Towers informed him of the trade and Shaw promptly dropped the call. When Shaw called back, Towers joked: “You didn’t have to hang up on me.”

Shaw proceeded to blossom into one of the sport’s most durable — and polarizing — pitchers. He led the league in appearances in 2014, 2016 and 2017, and registered at least 70 in all five of his seasons in Cleveland.

Albers posted a 3.14 ERA in his only season with the Indians. Stubbs spent one year in the Indians outfield before the club dealt him to Colorado for reliever Josh Outman.

Now, technically, another branch of this trade tree connects to the Bartolo Colon tree (which we’ll tackle in a future article). That swap with the Expos landed the Indians, among other players, Cliff Lee, whom the Indians eventually dealt to the Phillies for Donald (also part of the Bauer trade), Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp and Lou Marson. Got all that?

Related: The story behind the Indians’ three-team deal to acquire Trevor Bauer

July 31, 2019: In three-team deal with the Reds and Padres, Indians trade away Trevor Bauer and acquire Yasiel Puig, Franmil Reyes, Logan Allen, Scott Moss and Victor Nova
It’s not often that trade talks reach a crescendo as a game reaches its conclusion, with one of the key players involved sitting at his locker as his teammates change out of their uniforms and reporters awkwardly mill around, trying to piece together the complicated, three-team, seven-player puzzle. It’s certainly not often that a trade materializes as one of the key players involved is at the center of an on-field fracas.

Antonetti and Mike Chernoff were sitting in Francona’s office after the Indians’ game against the Astros, sorting out the deal’s final details. They had tuned in to the Reds’ contest against the Pirates.

“Eating popcorn,” Chernoff said.

“Choking on popcorn,” Antonetti added.

The game dissolved into a benches-clearing brouhaha, with Puig’s actions ultimately earning him a three-game suspension.

The Indians had toyed with various concepts of a Bauer trade for about eight months, but they preferred to receive some major-league talent in return, so as not to hinder their efforts to contend. They acquired Puig and Reyes — the latter under team control through 2024 — to bolster the lineup for the final two months of 2019, a top-100 prospect, Allen, plus another intriguing starting pitcher, Moss. Allen and Moss could factor into the Indians’ pitching plans as soon as this season. Reyes, who provided a daily power display this spring, figures to supply the muscle in the middle of the Indians’ lineup for the foreseeable future.

After the trade, Bauer, as only he would, attended the game at Progressive Field the following night as a fan, with a cameraman chronicling the final chapter of his Cleveland tenure.

Next week: The tangled web that ultimately led to the trade that laid the foundation for the Indians’ ’90s renaissance

(Top photo: Scott R. Galvin / USA Today)

The anatomy of a three-team trade, and the story behind the Indians’ acquisition of Trevor Bauer six years ago

Zack Meisel Dec 13, 2018 7
LAS VEGAS — Chris Antonetti sat alone at a table in the Indians’ hotel suite in Nashville. Terry Francona could sense Antonetti was frustrated, so he stuck around to console the Indians’ general manager.

The organization had ushered in a new era two months earlier when it hired Francona to steer the ship. The plan was to contend, to challenge the Tigers in the AL Central.

There was just one problem.

“We didn’t seem to have much pitching,” Francona said. “We weren’t really having a whole lot of luck finding ways to get it. And I know (Antonetti) was down.”

The Indians’ rotation featured Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez. Unproven commodities in Corey Kluber and Zach McAllister waited their turn. The pitching staff ranked last in the AL in 2012 with a 4.78 ERA as the club stumbled to a 94-loss campaign, costing Manny Acta his job.

So, the Indians were desperate for some reliable arms. And they knew the Diamondbacks were dangling a durable 21-year-old named Trevor Bauer.

The groundwork for acquiring Bauer began prior to the 2011 amateur draft. There was a chance he would fall to the Indians, who owned the eighth overall pick. Antonetti chatted with Bauer on the phone a couple of times in advance of the draft to gain a better understanding of his training habits and a better feel for his personality. The Indians met with him in person as well.

“It was a pretty deep draft,” said Brad Grant, then the Indians’ director of amateur scouting, “and we didn’t want to make any assumptions, so we spent time on everybody.”

Bauer preferred to join a team that preached progressive pitching philosophies — or, at least, flexible ones. His ultimate destination, though, was out of his control. The Diamondbacks selected him with the third pick, and the Indians snagged Francisco Lindor at No. 8.

Bauer quickly fell out of favor in Arizona, though. He clashed with his Class AAA manager and with Diamondbacks catcher Miguel Montero. The Indians hoped to pounce on a pitcher with plenty of potential, figuring he simply needed a change of scenery.

“We had a very robust dossier on Trevor before he became a professional,” Antonetti said, “and we definitely referenced that at the time we were looking to trade.”

They reached out to Arizona to discuss a deal. The Indians were aiming to trade Shin-Soo Choo, who had only one year remaining on his contract and, with Scott Boras as his agent, was eyeing a lucrative payday on the open market.

Arizona general manager Kevin Towers was seeking a shortstop, though. They relied upon 34-year-old Willie Bloomquist and 37-year-old John McDonald to man the position in 2012. The Indians didn’t have a young shortstop to swap.

So, they turned to the Reds.

On the surface, it’s pretty simple. The Reds liked Choo. The Indians liked Bauer. The Diamondbacks were fond of Cincinnati shortstop Didi Gregorius, who had debuted for the Reds that season.

This wasn’t a three-player deal, though. It evolved into a nine-player trade.

It’s difficult enough to complete a two-team trade. A three-team deal is exponentially more challenging to execute.

“That’s why you don’t see them happen that often,” Grant said.

Antonetti said the Indians have held “some four-team discussions before,” but never one involving five or more teams.

“Getting all parties to the table is really challenging,” said Tribe general manager Mike Chernoff.

The Indians devoted much of their time at the 2012 Winter Meetings to searching for a deal with Arizona, but they couldn’t pinpoint the proper combination of players to appease both sides. The three teams never met as a group. Antonetti essentially played all-time quarterback, making separate calls to Towers and to Reds general manager Walt Jocketty, trying to guide everyone toward a satisfying finish. They finalized everything about a week after the clubs departed Nashville.

“It’s a lot of putting all the pieces together,” Antonetti said, “like, ‘OK, we think this might work. Will it work for you?’ ‘OK, this works for you, this other piece doesn’t, so how do we figure it out?’

“Usually there’s one of the teams that’s kind of helping put the pieces together, but that’s not always the case. A lot of it just depends on who the teams are, what their trading histories have been, what the dynamics between the different teams are.”

When Bauer received the call from his agent, he was sitting at Chipotle with a few friends. He stepped outside, learned about his relocation and then sat back down, casually informed his company of the news and finished his burrito.

“It was so toxic there,” Bauer said, noting that he deserved some blame, too. “I wanted to quit baseball. I didn’t want to play anymore.”

And when the deal went down?

“I was actually invigorated again to play and to work and to train,” he said.

The final arrangement looked like this:

Cleveland received: Trevor Bauer, Bryan Shaw, Matt Albers, Drew Stubbs
Cincinnati received: Shin-Soo Choo, Jason Donald
Arizona received: Didi Gregorius, Lars Anderson, Tony Sipp

Shaw was driving through the Arizona desert when a voicemail alert appeared on his phone. Towers had left a message insisting the reliever return his call as soon as possible. Shaw had spotty service, so his phone never rang. He called Towers, who relayed the details of the trade.

Before Shaw said anything, he lost cell service. He dropped the call.

He redialed Towers, who promptly quipped: “You didn’t have to hang up on me.”

The trade proved fruitful for the Indians, who leaned on Shaw’s right arm for five years. After years of work and growth, Bauer has blossomed into one of the better pitchers in the league. All of that for one season of Choo and a few spare parts.

“We did have very good grades on (Bauer before the draft), but not to that elite of a level,” Grant said. “He’s made himself into that. If you’re looking at him in college, you don’t see that potential to be a Cy Young winner. He’s progressively gotten better and better and better. Did we like him coming out of college, though? Yes, definitely.”

The Indians constructed their rotation — the foundation of the roster — through trades. They acquired Corey Kluber from the Padres in another three-team deal that cost them Jake Westbrook. They obtained Carlos Carrasco from the Phillies in the Cliff Lee trade. They turned Vinnie Pestano into Mike Clevinger in a deal with the Angels.

The Bauer trade was as complicated as any of them, with three teams and nine players included in the final agreement. But once it was completed, it granted the Indians a clearer vision and a brighter future.

“I think what it takes is an understanding of what each team is trying to accomplish,” Antonetti said. … “It takes a lot of time. We spent weeks on that concept.”

The Indians constructed their rotation — the foundation of the roster — through trades. They acquired Corey Kluber from the Padres in another three-team deal that cost them Jake Westbrook. They obtained Carlos Carrasco from the Phillies in the Cliff Lee trade. They turned Vinnie Pestano into Mike Clevinger in a deal with the Angels.

And of course dealing Bauer last summer seems to be a great one too.

This is why, despite finances, it is entirely possible to stay in the hunt year after year.

What happened in 2016 was a bullshit fluke. That could very well just as easily be a championship but for flukey luck.

And by the way there is little doubt the playoffs will be expanded sooner than later. So the likelihood of lesser teams winning it all (remember Washington was a wildcard) is even greater.

So more than ever you keep placing yourself in the playoffs as often as possible and take your chances.