Cleveland Sports Forum

seagull wrote:Why the rush? Best and final offers by the weekend??????

Why not wait until player reporting date for ST?

Some team may have their shortstop show up 40 pounds overweight.

My best guess Seagull:

1. They already have an offer they like - want to see if it can be topped first
2. They are not waiting - because depending on who they get back they then have to get back to finishing off the team for 2020. The longer they wait the more guys go off the market (for example 2B/SS Jonathan Schoop got scooped by Tigers yesterday) in positions (2B, OF) they still need filled.
3. They may have a follow up trade in mind already set up

So there are lots of reasons not to wait - not that we would be privy to them at this point.

INDIANS
Why didn’t the Cleveland Indians get more for Corey Kluber? Hey, Hoynsie
Updated Dec 21, 9:38 AM;Posted Dec 21, 5:57 AM

By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Do you have a question that you’d like to have answered in Hey, Hoynsie? Submit it here or contact him on Twitter at @hoynsie.

Hey, Hoynsie: Normally I’m very realistic about the moves the Indians make with the understanding that the Tribe is a small market team and money will always be an issue. But I have to admit that I was stunned by the Corey Kluber trade. Delino DeShields provides little upside. Do you think the Indians will use the money saved to sign a hitter like Nick Castellanos? If that’s so, the Kluber deal makes more sense. -- Patrick Kenney, North Tonawanda, N.Y.


Hey Patrick: I think the Kluber deal was a salary dump with fringe benefits. Instead of simply not exercising his $17.5 million option after the World Series, the Indians exercised it with the idea of trading him. They dumped most of the salary and brought back an experienced outfielder and a hard-throwing reliever in Emmanuel Clase, who could help them in 2020. There’s no way they sign Castellanos unless he falls in their lap on a one-year deal and that’s not happening.


Hey Hoynsie: Why did the Indians accept Delino DeShields as a part of the Corey Kluber deal? Why not a prospect? Are we collecting as many mediocre outfielders as possible? These guys are all the same -- with Oscar Mercado, perhaps, being the exception. Hey, maybe they should sign Lonnie Chisenhall or is Shelley Duncan still around? -- Joel Brown.

Hey, Joel: I’m not sure what the Indians are going to do with the nine outfielders on their 40-man roster. You’re right, Mercado could be the only everyday guy in the bunch. DeShields has played parts of five seasons in the big leagues. He hits lefties better than righties, runs well and plays a good center field.

The Indians always talk about getting incrementally better. Maybe DeShields moves the needle a couple more inches than a prospect. What we do know is there are not going to be nine outfielders on the opening day roster.



Hey, Hoynsie: With the reports that the Indians are reportedly requesting teams to make their best offers for Francisco Lindor over the weekend, does this mean that they are so broke that they can’t pay him $16.7 million for 2020? (Lindor is projected to make $16.7 million in arbitration this winter). They cut about $50 million with the trades of Trevor Bauer and Corey Kluber and declining Jason Kipnis’ option for 2020. Has losing minority owner John Sherman’s cash infusion caused this bailout? -- Greg Clark, Elyria.

Hey, Greg: Having Sherman put his shares of the Indians in a trust so he could officially purchase the Kansas City Royals in November certainly hasn’t helped the Tribe’s cash flow. But he pretty much decided to buy the Royals in spring training last year so this didn’t sneak up on anybody.


The Indians’ payroll, with or without Lindor’s salary, will go down for the second straight year. You don’t have to like it, but instead of tanking and going into a full rebuild for four to six years, they’re cutting payroll and trying to win at the same time. It is a risky strategy to say the least, but believe me it beats watching a team lose 90 to 105 games for five or six straight years while collecting high draft picks and saving its money for the next big push. Yes, they won 93 games last year, but they also missed the postseason.


Hey, Hoynsie: I am so tired of the guys on talk radio and fans that write you complaining that Indians owner Paul Dolan is not spending enough money. The Indians are one of the winningest teams in baseball and they perennially rank in the middle of the pack in attendance. The top five teams nearly doubled the Tribe’s attendance in 2019. Assuming the average fan spends $50 to attend the game including seats, concessions, and souvenirs, that equates to a big shortfall for the Indians compared to the top five teams in the big leagues. So if you really care about the Tribe go out and support the team. -- Joe Cerino, Concord.

(attendance link to 2019 - ps they were 22nd out of 30) http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homeTotal

Hey, Cerino: Many will call you a voice in the wilderness (or worse), but you have a point. While MLB teams have many more revenue streams than they used to have, attendance is still a driving force for franchises such as the Indians. During their current seven-year winning streak, in which they’ve won more games than any team in the AL, they’ve drawn over two million fans just once.



New York Yankees' Gerrit Cole (center), joined by his wife Amy and agent Scott Boras, is introduced at Yankee Stadium after signing a nine-year, $324 million contract.

Hey, Hoynsie: We were all amazed at the size of the free agent contracts that players signed recently at the winter meetings in San Diego. Approximately, how big a cut does agent Scott Boras earn from his clients? -- Alan, Columbus.

Hey, Alan: The New York Post, citing sources, reports that Boras earns about five percent when one of his players signs a multiyear contract. To say the least, it has been a good winter for Boras and his agency and he’s not done yet.

Gerrit Cole signed a nine-year, $324 million deal with the Yankees. Stephen Strasburg signed a seven-year, $245 million deal with Washington, Anthony Rendon signed a seven-year, $245 million deal with the Angels and Mike Moustakes signed a four-year, $64 million deal with the Reds. Boras, at five percent, earned $43.9 million from those four contracts that totaled $878 million.


Boras still has unsigned clients in Hun-Jin Ryu, Dallas Keuchel and Nick Castellanos. By the time all of Boras clients are signed, they should easily top $1 billion.


Hey, Hoynsie: In the early 1960s, the Yankees used to have a six-inning pitcher that was followed by a three-inning reliever to finish games. With a surplus of starters, couldn’t the Tribe do something like that with their six-inning guys like Aaron Plutko and Zach Plesac? It would keep the bullpen fresh. The three-inning relievers could pitch every fifth day just like starters. -- Alan Keller, Leesburg, Va

Hey, Alan: Theoretically it sounds good, but what if Plutko and Plesac get knocked out of the game in the third or fourth inning? What if the three-inning reliever can’t get out of his first inning?

The new 26-man roster means there’s a cap on the number of pitchers a team can carry. It will be 13 pitchers from opening day through the end of August and 14 in September. A 13-man staff consists of five starters and eight relievers. If you have two relievers assigned specifically to follow two starters, what happens if the other three starters are in a funk and manager Terry Francona needs his two three-inning relievers to help out in those games?


Maybe your idea would work better if you used the relievers as openers followed by Plutko and Plesac to pitch the bulk of the innings. That’s what Tampa Bay does so well.



Hey, Hoynsie: I understand the situation about why the Indians have to trade Francisco Lindor. I’m actually for trading him now to maximize his value, but why in the heck would the Indians put Mike Clevinger in the deal also? I read where the Dodgers want Lindor and Clevinger. If that is the case, we need to be getting Cody Bellinger back. Trading a potential ace this early in his career makes absolutely no sense. -- Larry Persinger, Mount Gilead.

Hey, Larry: I don’t think the Indians put Clevinger into the trade talks with the Dodgers. I would imagine it was the Dodgers who asked for Clevinger, especially if the Indians were asking for right-hander Dustin May. Lots of names get added and subtracted in trade talks. I can’t see the Indians putting Lindor and Clevinger in the same deal.


Hey, Hoynsie: Are the Indians pursuing Whit Merrifield? His contract seems affordable: $12 million split over the next 3 seasons. -- Jim, Baton Rouge, La.

Hey, Jim: What’s not to like about a guy who has led the big leagues in hits the last two years? Merrifield would be a nice fit with the Tribe, especially since he could play second base. But the Royals have pretty much said he’s off limits and it’s hard to make trades when the teams involved play in the same division. The asking price is always high because if you’re the Royals would you want to face Merrifield 19 times a year unless you received a big return?

CESAR HERNANDEZ
2B, PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES

Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that the Indians have signed second baseman Cesar Hernandez to a one-year, $6.25 million contract.
The Indians saved a good chunk of change by dealing Corey Kluber to the Rangers, so hopefully this is the first step to address areas of need. Hernandez was non-tendered by the Phillies earlier this month after batting .279/.333/.408 with 14 homers, 71 RBI and nine stolen bases in 2019, but he represents a strong upgrade over the Indians' internal options at second base. The 29-year-old switch-hitter is known for his strong approach at the plate, though his walk rate fell all the way to 6.7 percent in 2019. Next up for the Indians should be to add an outfielder.

Indians To Sign Cesar Hernandez
By Steve Adams | December 23, 2019 at 11:42am CDT

The Indians have reached a one-year agreement with free-agent second baseman Cesar Hernandez, ESPN’s Jeff Passan tweets. The Octagon client will earn a $6.25MM salary for the 2020 season.

Cesar Hernandez

Hernandez, 30 in May, was non-tendered earlier this month after a run of five solid seasons as the Phillies’ primary second baseman. From 2015-19, Hernandez racked up 3026 plate appearances in Philadelphia and turned in a .278/.355/.388 batting line with 45 home runs, 106 doubles, 27 triples and 79 stolen bases. His home run totals ticked up in 2018-19 as well, when the switch-hitter logged a combined 29 round-trippers.

However, Hernandez was eligible for arbitration for the final time this winter and due a raise on last season’s $7.75MM salary. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projected an $11.8MM salary for his final trip through that process. The Phillies — and, clearly, other teams — deemed Hernandez’s likely arbitration price to be too steep and opted to non-tender him, sending him out into the open market for the first time in his career.

Several factors surely contributed to the decision to cut Hernandez loose. The free-agent market is arguably deeper at second base than any other position, thus hampering the Indians’ ability to drum up trade interest in Hernandez even in spite of his steady rate of play over the past half decade. The Phillies also had a versatile pair of infielders in Jean Segura and particularly Scott Kingery, allowing them to target virtually any infield option they saw fit upon moving on from Hernandez. (Eventually, the club zeroed in on Didi Gregorius.)

With the Indians, Hernandez will now slot in as their primary second baseman, replacing mainstay Jason Kipnis, whose 2020 club option was bought at the onset of the offseason. He’ll bring a generally solid defensive reputation to the table in Cleveland, though Hernandez isn’t likely to be bringing home any Gold Glove Awards in the near future. Metrics like Ultimate Zone Rating and Defensive Runs Saved are a bit split on his total body of work, but Hernandez has only had one truly poor season per either of those measures. And, in 2019, he posted +6 DRS and a 0.7 UZR, suggesting he’s still more than capable of handling the position.

Installing Hernandez at second base means that two-time All-Star and two-time Silver Slugger Jose Ramirez will be locked in as Cleveland’s primary third baseman in 2020. Ramirez is capable of playing either second or third, which gave the Indians’ front office some flexibility when eyeing potential infield targets in free agency.

Of course, that flexibility only extends so far, as Cleveland ownership has rather clearly given the front office some notable payroll constraints. The Indians have already sent Corey Kluber to the Rangers in a trade that more closely resembled a salary dump than anything else. The fact that they nonetheless took what was widely regarded as a light return now — as opposed to keeping Kluber and hoping he built up some value early in the year — suggests that clearing the entirety of next year’s $17.5MM salary was a critical element of the swap.

Whether the Indians make any additional shakeups on the roster is currently one of the more interesting hot stove storylines in the game. Teams have been trying to pry superstar shortstop Francisco Lindor away from Cleveland to no avail, and burgeoning frontline starter Mike Clevinger is reported to be drawing interest as well. There’s no firm indication that the Indians plan to move either player, though, and even with Hernandez now on board, Cleveland’s payroll checks in at roughly $97MM, per Roster Resource’s Jason Martinez. That’s a drop of $38MM from 2018’s Opening Day mark and $22MM from 2019’s Opening Day total.

Well of course Mike Clevinger is drawing interest. Why wouldn't any team want to add Clevinger who is a cheap extremely good pitcher. I'd rate him as our First starter and Cy Young candidate in 2020.

rusty2 wrote:Indians To Sign Cesar Hernandez
By Steve Adams | December 23, 2019 at 11:42am CDT

The Indians have reached a one-year agreement with free-agent second baseman Cesar Hernandez, ESPN’s Jeff Passan tweets. The Octagon client will earn a $6.25MM salary for the 2020 season.

Hernandez, 30 in May, was non-tendered earlier this month after a run of five solid seasons as the Phillies’ primary second baseman. From 2015-19, Hernandez racked up 3026 plate appearances in Philadelphia and turned in a .278/.355/.388 batting line with 45 home runs, 106 doubles, 27 triples and 79 stolen bases. His home run totals ticked up in 2018-19 as well, when the switch-hitter logged a combined 29 round-trippers.

However, Hernandez was eligible for arbitration for the final time this winter and due a raise on last season’s $7.75MM salary. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projected an $11.8MM salary for his final trip through that process. The Phillies — and, clearly, other teams — deemed Hernandez’s likely arbitration price to be too steep and opted to non-tender him, sending him out into the open market for the first time in his career.

Commented on this earlier. So on his "down" season he still gives much more than we have gotten at 2B. And look back on previous seasons (he is not old).

Also another switch hitter (who does better against righties actually). Nice move here.

With Hernandez and Mike Freeman agreeing to Columbus, seems like we might be putting people in place to allow Frankie to be traded.

That could be..... or they were seeing if any offers intrigued them enough with a possible everyday 2nd baseman to not sign Hernandez. Just a thought.......

rusty2 wrote:That could be..... or they were seeing if any offers intrigued them enough with a possible everyday 2nd baseman to not sign Hernandez. Just a thought.......

Yeah, I'm with rusty here. To me, signing Hernandez to play 2B says that no trade offers for Lindor include a 2B coming back to the Indians. He does not play SS so he doesn't directly affect Lindor though.

What the addition of César Hernández means for the Indians

By Zack Meisel Dec 23, 2019 24
CLEVELAND — A few years ago, a front office evaluator shared a simple notion: One of the most underrated methods of bolstering a roster is converting an “F” into a “C.”

No one throws a parade when a team acquires a league-average player bound to an unspectacular contract. Fans dream of seismic trades and landmark free-agent signings and household names to stitch onto their jerseys.

Maybe the Indians will sell some red or navy César Hérnandez tops. He’ll be the Indians’ starting second baseman in 2020 — though, on a one-year, $6.25 million contract, perhaps only for that season.

Both parties involved in the Jason Kipnis/Cleveland Indians marriage knew the partnership would not persist past the 2019 campaign. For three consecutive years, Kipnis had struggled to stay healthy and produced about 20 percent below a league-average level at the plate. The Indians had their sights set on the free-agent market, a field flush with flawed but useful candidates.

There were veterans with too much mileage, guys lacking defensive range. Jonathan Schoop and Brian Dozier can launch baseballs into the outfield stands, but they don’t reach base at an impressive rate. Travis Shaw has a respectable track record, but one that includes a dreadful 2019.

One of the Indians’ top priorities this offseason was to upgrade their outlook at second base, to convert a projected failing grade into something passable. Hernández is a solid solution.

The Indians’ internal options weren’t too inspiring. Mike Freeman, designated for assignment when the club dealt Corey Kluber to Texas, accepted a non-roster invitation to spring training. He figures to compete for a utility job with Andrew Velazquez and Yu Chang. Christian Arroyo could make the Opening Day roster since he’s out of minor-league options, but it’s difficult to forecast what role he would fill, and the Indians have yet to see him play since acquiring him from Tampa last summer.

Hernández should provide some stability for a year. The addition will keep José Ramírez at third, which the Indians preferred all along. Whenever Nolan Jones arrives in the majors, they’ll reassess their defensive alignment. In the long run, their hope is that Jones will play third and Ramírez will shift to second. But that’s likely a worry for 2021.

Throughout his career, Hernández, 29, has performed at a league-average level, or a bit better, at the plate. His walk rate is the key. In 2018, he walked in a Carlos Santana-like 13.4 percent of his plate appearances. That ranked 16th in the majors, behind names such as Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Joey Votto, Santana and Ramírez.

In 2019, his walk rate plummeted to 6.7 percent, and so while he batted .279, he posted a .333 on-base percentage, his lowest mark since 2014. His chase rate increased nearly 10 percent last season.

His on-base percentage from 2016-18: .371, .373 and .356. If he can return to that level, he seems like an intriguing option for the top of Terry Francona’s batting order, especially considering he’s a switch-hitter. That could give Francona four switch-hitting regulars — Hernández, Ramírez, Santana and, perhaps, Francisco Lindor — to frustrate opposing relievers who must now face at least three batters, pitch to the end of an inning or come down with a sudden case of need-to-leave-the-game-itis.

Over the last four seasons, Hernández has posted a .279/.357/.395 slash line, with an average of 15 stolen bases per year. He ranked in the 88th percentile in sprint speed in 2019. His power also increased the last two seasons, though that’s something many players can claim.

Hernández’s wRC+ the last four years: 107, 111, 99, 92
Kipnis’ wRC+ the last four years: 114, 80, 89, 82

Hernández’s fWAR the last four years: 3.8, 3.3, 2.1, 1.7
Kipnis’ fWAR the last four years: 4.7, 0.5, 2.1, 1.1

Instead of paying Hernández a projected $11 million via arbitration, the Phillies non-tendered him, making him a free agent. They swiftly signed Didi Gregorius to take his spot.

The Indians are the beneficiaries. The Lindor decision has clouded the entire offseason, and it’s likely that will continue into January. Should they opt to keep Lindor, they have their infield set.

There remain questions about the outfield and perhaps the bullpen, but the Indians have at least filled the one spot that always seemed destined for a free-agent addition. They did their homework on the free-agent class and they converted an “F” into a “C.”

What’s behind Cleveland Indians’ moves so far this winter besides money?

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
FIRST BAUER, THEN KLUBER

1. Before discussing the Corey Kluber deal and the signing of Cesar Hernandez, the Indians began their plans for 2020 when they traded Trevor Bauer at the end of July. So let’s dial back to that big move.

2. It was a three-way deal between the Indians, Cincinnati Reds and San Diego Padres. The Indians sent Bauer to Cincinnati, where he finished the season with a 2-5 record and 6.39 ERA in 10 starts for the Reds. Overall, he was 11-13 with a 4.48 ERA.


3. It’s possible Bauer will go to arbitration for a third consecutive winter. According to MLBtraderumors.com, he is projected to be paid $18.6 million. That’s up from $13 million in 2018.

4. So it appears Bauer will be in line for a $5 million raise after a lousy season. Had the Indians retained Corey Kluber, his salary also would be in the $18 million range for 2020. Yes, money was part of the reason both veteran starters were traded. No doubt. But the Indians knew they couldn’t re-sign Bauer. And they knew big questions hung over Kluber. Will he stay healthy? Can he return to his 2018 form?

5. Finally, the Indians had lots of younger (and cheaper) starters available: Mike Clevinger, Shane Bieber, Zach Plesac, Aaron Civale, Adam Plutko, Jefry Rodriguez, along with minor leaguers Scott Moss, Logan Allen and Triston McKenzie ... although none of the prospects are big league ready now. Veteran Carlos Carrasco will “anchor” the staff, as team president Chris Antonetti mentioned.


6. The Indians believed the longer they waited to trade Bauer and Kluber, the less likely they’d receive as much in return as when they made the deals. Bauer is headed to free agency after the 2020 season.

7. Kluber pitched poorly (2-3, 5.80 ERA) in seven starts before his 2019 season ended with a fractured pitching arm after being hit by a line drive. That hurt his trade value. He will be 34 on April 10. For the Indians, the question was what can they receive in return for Bauer and Kluber to keep the team a contender in the next few years?

8. Franmil Reyes was the key to the Bauer deal. The Indians (with good reason) believe Reyes can hit 35-40 HR a year. At the age of 24, he slammed 37 HR with 81 RBI between the Tribe and Padres in 2019. He batted .249 (.810 OPS) and he’s still a raw hitter with a lot of room to improve.

9. They also picked up prospects Moss and Allen in the deal. Allen was once a top prospect who had a lot of problems last season with his delivery. The Indians are quietly excited about Moss, a 25-year-old lefty who had a 10-6 record with a 2.96 ERA between Class AA and AAA last season. His minor league record: 47-17, 3.28 ERA. He could help the rotation at some point next season.


10. Yasiel Puig was also in the deal. He’s now a free agent. They added Victor Nova, a 19-year-old infielder considered a marginal prospect.

11. The Kluber deal brought Emmanuel Clase, the 21-year-old reliever with a 99-mph fastball who had a 2.31 ERA with the Texas Rangers in 21 games last season. They also added outfielder Delino DeShields. I asked around, the market for Kluber was not strong because of this $18 million salary and his recent injury.

12. So here is who they added in those two deals: Reyes (24), Clase (21), DeShields (27), Moss (25), Allen (22) and Nova (19). Not all of these guys will work out. But some will. Just like when the Indians added young outfielders Jordan Luplow, Jake Bauers and Oscar Mercado in deals beginning on July 31, 2018. Mercado has emerged as a starting center fielder.

ABOUT SECOND BASE

1. The Indians have replaced Jason Kipnis with Cesar Hernandez, one of MLB’s most consistent second basemen. I didn’t say best. He’s slightly above average. But the switch-hitter has something the Indians want: durability and reliability.


2. In the last two seasons with the Philadelphia Phillies, he’s missed a grand total of two games. ESPN will give you split stats over the last three seasons. He batted .274 (.749 OPS), averaging 13 HR, 55 RBI, 67 walks and 14 stolen bases.

3. In that same three-year span, Hernandez batted .272 vs. righties, .275 vs. lefties. How about this? He hit .277 before the All-Star break, .271 after the break. He is considered slightly above average defensively.

4. The only concern with Hernandez is his walk-rate dropped quite a bit, from 95 in 2018 to 45 in 2019. He’s 29, a solid big leaguer who signed for $6.5 million. He replaces Kipnis, who batted .245 (.715 OPS) with 17 HR and 55 RBI. A concern with the 32-year-old Kipnis is durability. He has had some calf and hamstring problems since 2017.

5. Manager Terry Francona loves switch-hitters, and he now has an infield full of them: Carlos Santana (1B), Hernandez (2B), Francisco Lindor (SS) and Jose Ramirez (3B).


6. One reason the Indians wanted DeShields in the Kluber deal is they believe he is a significant upgrade over Greg Allen as a backup outfielder. The 25-year-old Allen was often used vs. lefties, and he batted only .186 (13-for-70). DeShields hit .274 vs. lefties.

7. Some fans have asked about Tyler Naquin. He is recovering from ACL knee surgery and probably won’t be ready until the summer. DeShields is a backup, but they like him better than Allen offensively and defensively.

8. If the experiment with Reyes in right field works, they will have two regular outfielders. Oscar Mercado opens in center. Jordan Luplow would play left field, at least against lefty pitchers. Bradley Zimmer has to prove he can stay healthy and is expected to open at Class AAA Columbus.

9. They can platoon Jake Bauers with Luplow in left field. Bauers has a lot to prove. He hit only .224 vs. righties. Daniel Johnson is a hot prospect after batting .290 (.868 OPS) with 19 HR and 77 RBI between Class AA and AAA. The 24-year-old outfielder played in the Futures Game last summer.


10. Reader Tom Stricker emailed me about Ka’ai Tom, wondering why he’s not mentioned as an OF candidate. The 25-year-old had a breakthrough season, batting .290 (.912 OPS) with 23 HR and 86 RBI between Class AA and AAA. It came out of nowhere, as he batted .245 (.728 OPS) with 12 HR at Class AA in 2018. He’s not on the 40-man roster, but I expect him to be invited to major league camp.

This is just me, but I am past worrying about Dolan saving money or whatever.

Trading Bauer and Kluber makes all kinds of sense for just baseball reasons too. Those reasons are:

Carrasco, Clevinger, Bieber, Plesac, Civale, Plutko.

I count 6 there. So that's where you trade from. Adding on to that, who's to say that starting pitching pipeline won't continue to pump out another SP or 2.

So I am good with all that.

As for Lindor, that's a wait and see. And count me in as a fan who does NOT want to commit $300 million plus to one player. So if you can get real value for him we might as well do that while we still can capitalize on asset Lindor. As for getting REAL value for him? Our front office does a pretty good job at that - but still it remains to be seen.

Pluto says the Indians are quietly excited about Moss. I have not been so quiet. I loved that we got him in the deal.

You add him, McKenzie, Rodriguez, and Allen to the names TFIR mentioned above, and we were definitely in a position to trade expensive starters. Hell, we still are.

Plutko probably has the lowest ceiling of any of the guys TFIR and I mentioned. And he’s been serviceable to say the least.

6. One reason the Indians wanted DeShields in the Kluber deal is they believe he is a significant upgrade over Greg Allen as a backup outfielder. The 25-year-old Allen was often used vs. lefties, and he batted only .186 (13-for-70). DeShields hit .274 vs. lefties.

Bullshit!

Indians were forced to take Deshields and his 4.6M projected salary.

Late inning defensive replacement.

Allen is cheaper.

Hillbilly wrote:Pluto says the Indians are quietly excited about Moss. I have not been so quiet. I loved that we got him in the deal.

You add him, McKenzie, Rodriguez, and Allen to the names TFIR mentioned above, and we were definitely in a position to trade expensive starters. Hell, we still are.

Plutko probably has the lowest ceiling of any of the guys TFIR and I mentioned. And he’s been serviceable to say the least.

Exactly for a #6 guy he's perfect really.

Look I get the money aspect, Dolan is cheap etc - but to me Tampa and Oakland are models ALONG with the Indians. Do more with less - it can be done and IS being done. And in all 3 cases without "rebuilding". I ain't fighting it.

Washington won last season as a wildcard team. Case closed as far as I am concerned. Get in the playoffs - stuff happens because it's all about who gets on a run late in the season. Washington did it last year - and they were far from the most talented/best team in the NL!