Cleveland Sports Forum

Good article and you can take the opinion of the Tribe rotation to the bank. It is arguably the best in baseball but what is NOT arguable is that Shane Bieber is the best 5th starter in baseball!

So when you have that kind of overkill in one area, and obvious hole in another area then making a deal is a no brainer.

IF you are the Indians, trading the one with the larger salary (Kluber) would be the best option. As well, he would likely fetch the best return.

I am with Pluto - any talk of Kluber/Bauer being less likely to be traded is just posturing to other teams. The Indians almost HAVE to deal one of these guys - it would be malpractice to do otherwise in their situation.

Management 101 - trade from an area of strength to upgrade an area of weakness. It's remedial.

The Cleveland Indians’ three-step checklist for the remainder of this unfulfilling offseason

Zack Meisel Jan 3, 2019 58
CLEVELAND​ — Chris​ Antonetti leaned​ against the information desk​ at Cleveland Hopkins​ International Airport.

“There’s still​ a lot​ of offseason​ left,” he​​ said, after his flight back from the Winter Meetings in Las Vegas. “I’m not sure this will be the final roster that we have going into spring training.”

That was three weeks ago. Granted, the MLB offseason has evolved at the pace of a malnourished snail. Only six free agents have signed contracts longer than two years. Bryce Harper and Manny Machado, the gems of the class, are still mulling their options.

But the Indians, operating this offseason with a twitchy trade finger, have an abundance of holes to fill and a spring training report date that sits only six weeks away. The club could use an infusion of talent in the outfield, in the bullpen, at either second or third base, at catcher and atop the parking garage adjacent to the ballpark, where the fireworks fellow has developed a knack for initiating explosions at the wrong moments.

Antonetti has dealt away Edwin Encarnacion and Yandy Díaz, Yan Gomes and Yonder Alonso. (Unfortunately, the latter three never played together long enough for one of the 4 million local T-shirt companies to reveal a Yan/Yandy/Yonder Law Firm top.) Those moves saved the Indians in the neighborhood of $21 million — they aren’t on the hook for Carlos Santana’s signing bonus, according to a source. Michael Brantley’s departure for Houston (made $12 million last year) and Andrew Miller’s relocation to St. Louis ($9 million) should arm the team with another $21 million that can be reallocated to arbitration settlements with Francisco Lindor and Trevor Bauer.

But no one wants to hear about a $1 billion franchise slicing a little pocket change from the payroll amid what’s supposed to be a championship contention window. And if attendance was underwhelming — or just, well, whelming — before, fans certainly aren’t going to line up in the Gateway Plaza to secure tickets to see a lineup that could end with a Naquin/Kipnis/Martín/Pérez quartet.

Let’s return to that kiosk in front of the TSA Precheck area, though, and remember Antonetti’s proclamation. There’s still time to arrive in Goodyear, Arizona, next month with a more formidable roster than the one that served as lifeless prey for the Astros in the ALDS. The to-do list, however, remains rather lengthy.

Step 1: Find a taker for Jason Kipnis
The Post-it note on Antonetti’s desk with this message has probably collected dust by now. The Indians tried to unload Kipnis’ salary last winter. This time, he has an expiring contract, albeit one that guarantees him another $14.67 million for 2019 and a $2.5 million buyout after that. (Or, if you’re feeling particularly reckless, you could exercise Kipnis’ $16.5 million club option for 2020.)

The key here is attaching something of value to Kipnis in a trade, a la the Browns eating Brock Osweiler’s absurd contract so they could snag another second-round draft pick, which turned into running back Nick Chubb. Job well done.

The Indians have spoken to teams about such a setup, but, obviously, nothing has materialized to this point. The accompanying piece must have some sort of promise — either a prospect (but not too talented of a prospect) or an intriguing big-leaguer (Danny Salazar? Cody Anderson?).

If they unearthed a way to ship Kipnis elsewhere, that would boost their offseason savings north of the $35 million mark. Plus, Lonnie Chisenhall’s $5.6 million, Brandon Guyer’s $2.75 million, Rajai Davis’ $1.75 million, Josh Tomlin’s $3 million and Zach McAllister’s $2.45 million are off the books, though some of that will offset with raises for Kluber, José Ramírez, Brad Hand and Carlos Carrasco.

Step 2: Make a final decision on trading Corey Kluber
The Indians have stood their ground while asking for a bounty in return for Kluber or Bauer. And they should. That also appears to have led to a standstill.

Dealing Kluber remains their most efficient route toward filling out their roster … provided a team will actually send them its top young outfielder and another piece or two or three. Dodgers outfielder Alex Verdugo or Reds infielder Nick Senzel, each a big-league-ready top prospect, could highlight a trade package. But the Indians want more than just one guy in return for their two-time Cy Young Award winner, especially in a potential deal with Los Angeles.

The Indians believe Shane Bieber could follow Mike Clevinger’s lead and blossom into a reliable force in the rotation in 2019. No team needs five effective starting pitchers come October, but no team should settle on a lackluster return for an ace, either.

Step 3: Spend the money saved from trades and departing free agents
If the Indians open the 2019 season with a $90 million payroll, a lineup lacking luster and a mess of a bullpen, grab your pitchforks and meet on Ontario Street at 9 a.m. on March 28. (Someone bring doughnuts.) There are, in fact, players on the seemingly comatose free-agent market who can offer the Indians a lift and, really, there’s no excuse for a few of them to not wind up in those new bright red Tribe uniforms.

If this were all about slashing and rebuilding, the Indians wouldn’t have granted Carrasco an extension or tendered Salazar a contract. But the front office needs to prove that money saved can be money spent — and, most important, money spent wisely. (For what it’s worth, I’m fairly certain if I ask Antonetti once more how much the team can spend, he’ll do some more slashing — of my tires. Ownership’s precise, preferred payroll figure remains a mystery for now.)

As for that free-agent market …

A sampling of available outfielders: Harper, A.J. Pollock, Derek Dietrich, Gerardo Parra, Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Carlos Gonzalez, Jon Jay, Melky Cabrera, Avisail Garcia, Carlos Gomez.

There’s a steep drop-off after the first two names on the list, and the Indians already have a handful of guys who could turn heads (Jordan Luplow, Oscar Mercado, even Tyler Naquin). Those guys should be depth-based luxuries on a contender, though. The Indians need one or two slam dunks. (The trade market could offer some enticing alternatives, too, if Nicholas Castellanos or David Peralta or Nomar Mazara are made available.)

A sampling of available second/third basemen: Mike Moustakas, Jed Lowrie, Asdrubal Cabrera, DJ LeMahieu, Brian Dozier, Josh Harrison, Marwin Gonzalez.

This is where the Indians could find some value, especially if they find a way to bump Kipnis from the roster. Ramírez’s versatility gives the team options.

A sampling of available relievers: Adam Ottavino, David Robertson, Craig Kimbrel, Oliver Pérez, Brad Brach, Nick Vincent, Luis Avilan, Sergio Romo, Justin Wilson, Tyler Clippard, Shawn Kelley, Kelvin Herrera, Adam Warren, Bud Norris.

Last winter, the Indians passed on the abundance of veteran relievers on the market, and the bullpen imploded. This year, that can’t happen. Helping Hand would be wise.

The deliberate pace of the offseason has allowed the Indians to swing a slew of trades without missing out on the climax of activity, but this roster needs some upgrades before the team treks to the Arizona desert.

I actually love that 2B list. To me, if they had to grab a Lowrie or Dozier and move Kipnis to the outfield it would be quite the upgrade.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but I do think it's reasonable that Kipnis could surprise and rebound - so if we are stuck with him move him to the outfield since the glut of great options on the market are 2B.

Even a guy like Markakis on a one year deal would be a large upgrade from their RF situation last season.

Based on yesterday's report on Salazar, I don't think adding him to a package with Kipnis will get us anywhere. But I agree that Kipnis can be traded only as part of a package. We could deal him with Kluber but that diminishes our potential return. Or does just Verdugo and a $15M saving worthwhile? [Then again, the not very positive comments on Verdugo's effort turns me to a Cinci deal fan]

In years past I have called for the Indians to trade Bauer because I have always felt he was an immature flake. I shut up with that talk last season, cause once you become successful and rich you are no longer a flake, you are eccentric.

Just win baby, right?

Well, even my hypocrisy has limits. Get rid of this moron.

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Indians, MLB need to take Trevor Bauer’s harassing tweets seriously

By Bill Baer
Jan 9, 2019, 12:36 PM EST

Indians pitcher Trevor Bauer is what we extremely online people call “extremely online.” For those of you who, unlike me, still understand what it means to see sunlight and experience human contact, to be “extremely online” is to inculcate oneself to Internet culture, including humor. Bauer exemplified this last year when he went to arbitration with the Indians. He wanted to file for $6.9 million, but as Jeff Passan (then of Yahoo Sports) reported, the right-hander was warned that the figure was too high and could result in him losing his case. He then wanted to file for $6,420,969.69.

Why 69? As any teenager can tell you, it references a sexual position and that’s funny stuff on the Internet. Why 420? Well, that references April 20, or 4/20, a day of celebration for marijuana enthusiasts. Bauer eventually settled on filing for $6.525 million – no reference to sex or drugs. Still needing to scratch the Internet humor itch, Bauer started “The 69 Days of Giving” in which he would donate $420.69 daily to a different charity. On the 69th and final day, he pledged to donate $69,420.69 to a secret charity. So, that gives you a bit of a picture of Bauer’s personality and sense of humor. We also know he’s a huge drone enthusiast and he’s been very critical of MLB’s arbitration system overall. He marches to the beat of his own drum.

That was mostly fine until two days ago when Bauer responded to a critic on Twitter. The critic, a baseball fan named Nikki, wrote of Bauer, “My new least favorite person in all sports,” tagging Bauer’s Twitter account (@BauerOutage). Bauer responded, “Welcome to the fan club” and included a kiss emoji. If that was the start and end of it, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But Bauer persisted, repeatedly going after her. Deadspin’s Laura Wagner captured a large quantity of Bauer’s tweet in an article on Monday, so check that out for the full context.

One of Bauer’s offenses was making a transphobic joke, which will need explaining for those who aren’t “extremely online.” Nikki wrote to Bauer, “Maybe you should act like the PROFESSIONAL you are, and like the 27 year old MAN you are, and not harass me for 14 hours. You are a horrible human.”

Bauer responded, “I identify as a 12 year old. This is 2019. You have to have empathy for my situation. Those are the rules”.

Bauer is referencing an Internet meme (specifically a “copypasta”) that started out as, “I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter.” It’s meant specifically to discredit non-binary people, suggesting that one can identify as anything, like an attack helicopter, along with the various identities in the gender spectrum. Bauer, whose humor exactly lines up with those who would use this meme, understands the implication behind the joke. Bauer made hundreds of replies to people since the debacle started, but interestingly did not respond to FanGraphs writer Sheryl Ring, who is trans. Ring simply asked to have a conversation about why the comment “really isn’t an okay thing to say.” [Update: I’ve been told that Bauer did respond, but the conversation or certain tweets have been deleted. So feel free to ignore this point.]

Bauer’s other offenses were continually harassing Nikki, who had ceased replying to his tweets early on. Bauer also replied to Nikki’s tweets publically – direct replies can only be seen by those who follow both parties – which allowed all 134,000 of his followers to get in on the drama and chime in. Bauer was repeatedly inviting his fans to harass Nikki on his behalf, and they did. Nikki ended up temporarily deleting her account. Responding to a Bauer fan who criticized her for deleting, Nikki wrote, “Sorry I didn’t like being told to kill my self for 4 days straight. You’re right. I’m so soft.”

Additionally, when responding to people, Bauer repeatedly put the blame on Nikki for starting the whole thing. Which is true, she did start it by criticizing him. But he didn’t have to respond and amplify the remark to 134,000 people. He needs to have a thicker skin and an ability to resist the urge to engage critics, of which he has many.

Why is Bauer’s behavior wrong? Simply put, it’s because there’s a power imbalance and Bauer exploited that to harass a woman, a baseball fan. Even after the online fracas with Bauer, Nikki has only 600 followers. Only a handful of people would go to bat for Nikki, but even a tiny percentage of Bauer’s 134,000 followers going after Nikki constitutes a gross amount of abuse. Let’s say that only 0.5 percent got involved. That’s still 670 people — more than Nikki’s entire follower count. It’s tough to get an actual count of just how many people were in Nikki’s mentions as a result of her interactions with Bauer, but a cursory search shows it’s quite a lot.

In short, Bauer wielded his power – his fame and online influence – improperly and unfairly towards Nikki. He bullied her. It is also notable that Bauer chose to obsess this way over a female critic. He has never gone to this length to challenge a male critic. In fact, Bauer’s fans were repeatedly tattling on Craig for criticizing his behavior earlier, essentially begging Bauer to tear Craig a new one, and Bauer only responded once, brusquely asking to be untagged from the conversation. Why is Bauer willing to tear Nikki apart publicly but not Craig, whose platform and influence is much, much more vast?

Major League Baseball’s fanbase is among the most homogenized and stagnant in professional sports. The league has been actively searching for ways to attract fans from more diverse backgrounds, like women, people of color, and LGBTQIA people. Teams have held various promotions like Pride Night and Women in Baseball Night. MLB also joined an anti-bullying campaign.

Dan DeRoos of Cleveland 19 reported that the Indians are aware of Bauer’s recent tweets. The club believes that players are in control of their own social media accounts and don’t represent the Indians as an organization. The club declined to elaborate beyond that. MLB, so far, has not acknowledged Bauer’s tweets.

Generally speaking, it’s a good thing that athletes have access to social media. It allows us to get a more intimate experience with those who play the sport at the highest level. This brings some really cool experiences, like seeing Sean Doolittle and Brandon McCarthy’s senses of humor on Twitter, as well as their charitable efforts. Even Bauer has been entertaining, like when he was trash-talking with Alex Bregman. It would be bad for the sport if players were encouraged not to post on social media.

With fame and a platform comes responsibility. There is a very easy line to tow when it comes to bullying and bigotry, and Bauer clearly crossed it. The Indians – already in constant hot water over the use of a racist caricature for a mascot – and MLB can’t both try to appeal to fans of diverse backgrounds and do nothing when players abuse their platforms to harass fans. Furthermore, the whole “he doesn’t represent us” defense is a cop-out. We just had a season in which Josh Hader, Sean Newcomb, Trea Turner, and Michael Kopech’s old tweets were dug up and they had to answer for them. They answered unsatisfactorily, but they were at least held to account in some small way, which is more than can be said for the Indians and MLB with Bauer.

Even ignoring the specifics of Bauer’s offenses, the league shouldn’t want its players harassing fans on social media anyway, no matter who it is. This, at minimum, should have resulted in Bauer being told, “Stop being extremely online.” It would be nice to see Bauer ordered to take sensitivity training and curtail his social media use until he proves he can use it in a healthy and productive manner. It is literally the least MLB and the Indians could do for women and non-binary fans.

Update (3:55 PM ET): Bauer has responded, though he didn’t apologize.

I have been made aware that some of the interactions related to a specific Twitter exchange may have had a negative impact. That was not my intention. I will wield the responsibility of my public platform more responsibly in the future. — Trevor Bauer (@BauerOutage) January 9, 2019

CLEVELAND -- All-Star shortstop Francisco Lindor and the Cleveland Indians have reached agreement at $10.55 million for a 2019 contract, a huge raise over the $643,200 he made last year.
The deal came before arbitration-eligible players were set to exchange salary figures Friday.
The 25-year-old Lindor hit .277 with 38 home runs and 92 RBI last season for the AL Central champions. He has been an All-Star in all three of his full seasons in the majors.
Pitcher Trevor Bauer swapped salary numbers with the Indians. The 27-year-old righty who went 12-6 with a 2.21 ERA asked for $13 million and the team offered $11 million.

The Bauer story is why I continually post that the Indians are trying to get rid of Bauer and not Kluber and if they do trade Kluber they may still trade Bauer or wait until next year.

Jon Paul Morosi of MLB.com reports the Padres and Indians have remained in contact regarding a potential trade for starting pitcher Corey Kluber.

Morosi says the Padres have taken their five best prospects off the table (SS Fernando Tatis Jr., LHP Mackenzie Gore, C Francisco Mejia, 2B Luis Urias and RHP Chris Paddack). However the Padres loaded farm system is stocked with plenty of desirable prospects they would be willing to trade, including pitchers Adrian Morejon, Michel Baez, Logan Allen, Cal Quantrill and Anderson Espinoza along with hitters like Buddy Reed, Josh Naylor and Tirso Ornelas. Morosi says young major leaguers Manuel Margot, Hunter Renfroe, Joey Lucchesi or Eric Lauer could be part of a deal. Morosi reports the Dodgers continue to be involved in Kluber trade talks as well.
Source: MLB.comJan 12 - 8:58 AM

rusty2 wrote:Jon Paul Morosi of MLB.com reports the Padres and Indians have remained in contact regarding a potential trade for starting pitcher Corey Kluber.

Morosi says the Padres have taken their five best prospects off the table (SS Fernando Tatis Jr., LHP Mackenzie Gore, C Francisco Mejia, 2B Luis Urias and RHP Chris Paddack). However the Padres loaded farm system is stocked with plenty of desirable prospects they would be willing to trade, including pitchers Adrian Morejon, Michel Baez, Logan Allen, Cal Quantrill and Anderson Espinoza along with hitters like Buddy Reed, Josh Naylor and Tirso Ornelas. Morosi says young major leaguers Manuel Margot, Hunter Renfroe, Joey Lucchesi or Eric Lauer could be part of a deal. Morosi reports the Dodgers continue to be involved in Kluber trade talks as well.
Source: MLB.comJan 12 - 8:58 AM

If this is accurate, a deal could definitely get done here IMO. Logan Allen, for example, is quite the excellent pitching prospect. As for the major league bunch, Margot and Renfroe = excellent young oufielders.

Hillbilly wrote:In years past I have called for the Indians to trade Bauer because I have always felt he was an immature flake. I shut up with that talk last season, cause once you become successful and rich you are no longer a flake, you are an eccentric

Yeah, watching him talk to Clevinger all the time in the dugout I assumed was a good thing - imparting pitching tips. Now I'm not so sure I'd want him around Clev if I'm the Indians.

SD - Will Myers will return to the outfield for the 2019 season.

Myers switched to third base in August of last season and ended up playing 36 games at that position. He told reporters at the Padres' fan fest that he and the team decided to end that experiment, although he could fill in at third occasionally if needed. He batted .253/.318/.446 with 11 homers, 39 RBI and 13 steals in 83 games.

Scrolling back to that laundry list of SD outfielders available for trade - this post says to me a trade off of outfielders is coming.

Will Myers.... local boy

Yeah, I guess the Trevor Nonesense does suggest we swap him before his reputation totally blows up. I can be and probably will be a great major leaguer but maybe we are better off without the personality. Clevinger might be just as good.

Certainly if we can swap him for equal value I am all for it. I also think the Tribe is much higher on Triston then we realize.

A Minor Review of 2018: Cleveland Indians

by Marc Hulet
January 9, 2019

Welcome back to my annual off-season series that has a quick-and-dirty review of all 30 minor league systems around baseball. This feature began way back in 2008.

The Cleveland IndiansIf you were perusing last year’s series, you would have read this:

The Sleeper: Nolan Jones, 3B: You haven’t reach much about Jones yet but that might chance in 2018 when he moves up to full-season ball for the first time. The 19-year-old third baseman produced a .430 on-base percentage in 2017 in short-season ball thanks to a 16% walk rate and .317 batting average. The average is due for some regression thanks to his .417 BABIP and 22% strikeout rate but he has the frame (6-4, 190 pounds) and the line-drive pop (22 LD%) to grow into some serious power. Jones looks like a future stud at the hot corner and he has the defensive tools to stick there.

Now onto the new stuff:

First Taste of The Show: Shane Bieber, RHP: Bieber had his ups-and-downs but he held his own during his first taste of the majors better than I thought he would. He chewed up innings and threw strikes — but got too much of the strike zone at times. With improved fastball command, Bieber could develop into a solid mid-rotation starter thanks to his strong breaking stuff and the aforementioned control. His development (along with Mike Clevinger’s) has made it easier for the club to consider parting ways with Corey Kluber or Trevor Bauer.

The Draft Pick: Lenny Torres, RHP: I absolutely loved what the Indians did with their draft this past year as they took three or four players I had highlighted pre-draft as potential steals — from Ethan Hankins to Noah Naylor to Raynel Delgado to Torres, the 41st overall selection. The biggest knock on the young hurler is his lack of size but he still has a strong fastball-slider combo. He’s also athletic, has a solid delivery and can throw strikes. I think he’ll move relatively quickly for a cold-weather prospect.

The Riser: Luis Oviedo, RHP: The Indians didn’t have a ton of players to take huge steps forward in 2019 but Oviedo made solid strides as a 19-year-old who began the year in extended spring training. Already standing 6-4, he’s learning to use that height to his advantage in generating a strong downward plane on his offerings to induce ground balls. He missed a lot of bats in rookie ball by striking out 61 batters in 48 innings but struggled against more advanced hitters when he moved up to low-A ball. His control is significantly better than his command at this point, which is common among young pitchers. Oviedo currently shows a promising fastball-changeup mix but needs to polish the breaking ball(s).

The Fallen: Will Benson, OF: The Indians bet on Benson’s immense athleticism when they selected him in the first round of the 2016 draft. The boom-or-bust player is looking more bust after falling on his face in full-season ball last year (.180 average, 152 Ks in 123 games). Benson, 20, has significant contact issues and swings from the heels every time, despite the fact his powerful build will generate nature pop. On the plus side, he walked 82 times so he’s not a complete lost cause. I’d like to see him bulk down a bit to rediscover some of his athleticism, and quiet his hands at the plate. Right now, he looks like a football player trying to play baseball.

The 2019 Contributor: Daniel Johnson, OF: As it stands in early January, the Indians’ outfield looks pretty gross (although I hope for good things from Greg Allen). As a result, there should be some opportunity for prospects to secure some significant playing time in 2019 — including Oscar Mercado and Johnson. Both are athletic players but I feel like Johnson has more explosive potential. He has an intriguing power-speed mix but he falls in love with the homers and gets into bad habits. Johnson needs to be more patient and focus on hit over power for now while focusing on getting on base and utilizing his plus speed.

The 2019 Sleeper:: George Valera, OF: A top international signee, Valera lasted just six games in 2018 before getting hurt. He shows an advanced approach for his age and could eventually develop above-average hit and power tools, even though he’s still filling out. He has the defensive skills to be a solid right-fielder and has enough speed and smarts to swipe a few bases. He’ll look to make up for lost time in 2019, although he’s likely to open the year in extended spring training.

The 2019 Lottery Ticket: Brayan Rocchio, SS: Rocchio is already beginning to make a name for himself despite being just 17 with one pro season under his belt. He came out absolutely stinging the ball and he could be the next player to take a Wander Franco/Fernando Tatis Jr. like jump in 2019 as a very advanced teenager with great make-up. There might even be plus-plus hit potential here, along with good speed and defensive value. The only tool lacking at this point is the power but that could eventually come and develop into double-digit pop.