Cleveland Sports Forum

7:03pm: The San Diego organization has held some talks regarding Kluber as well as Blue Jays righty Marcus Stroman, per Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune (via Twitter). But while “the Padres could still add a starting pitcher for 2019,” he says, “it won’t be one of those two.”

Needless to say, that’s a rather forthright rebuke of the earlier reporting this evening, which had characterized the Padres as active and strong pursuers of Kluber.

—-

The Cleveland Indians have not one, but two aces to offer: two-time Cy Young Award winner Corey Kluber and All-Star/Cy Young truther Trevor Bauer.

By all accounts, however, Cleveland has been willing to consider moving the two right-handers strictly out of a desire to cut payroll. That mission has largely been accomplished by trimming fat around them. The club's 2019 payroll is projected at $119.4 million. That's about $15 million below where it opened 2018.

Per Marc Carig of The Athletic, the New York Yankees have "little optimism" about matching up with the Tribe after adding Paxton, J.A. Happ and CC Sabathia. The Los Angeles Dodgers remain in on Kluber, according to Jon Morosi of MLB.com, but they don't want to include Cody Bellinger in a possible deal.

The Indians will only move Kluber for an "overpayment of prospects and young players," according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe, so anything less than Bellinger may not cut it. Besides which, the Dodgers need an impact bat more than an impact arm.

Since a proper motive and ideal trading partners both seem to be missing in this case, here's guessing Kluber and Bauer will stay put in Cleveland.

The Los Angeles Dodgers remain in on Kluber, according to Jon Morosi of MLB.com, but they don't want to include Cody Bellinger in a possible deal.

The Indians will only move Kluber for an "overpayment of prospects and young players," according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe, so anything less than Bellinger may not cut it. Besides which, the Dodgers need an impact bat more than an impact arm.

1. The Dodgers would be idiots to deal Bellinger for Kluber, and they know that.
2. Seems to me their recent trade with the Reds lessens the chances of a deal with the Tribe. They dealt 2 outfielders in that trade - therefore their outfield glut is now history. In fact they may now put Verdugo into an outfield slot.
3. Needless to say if they are in on Harper then Verdugo becomes very available. Who knows, that may be the hold up. I do think they would like Harper on a shorter term deal with crazy annual salary. But may take a long time to see if he will end up going for that when he might get 8-10-12 years elsewhere.

talks regarding Kluber as well as Blue Jays righty Marcus Stroman

That's quite a choice! And quite a different price to be paid for the one they really want.

Not sure if I’d agree with that, TFIR. Bellinger just hit .260 last 2 years. And only 25 homers last year. We’re not talking Babe Ruth here. But Kluber is a 2 time Cy Young award winner. You aren’t getting him for nothing. You want a guy like that signed for what he’s signed for it’s gonna hurt.

Hey, if it were a fantasy draft for this year only of course Kluber is the better guy.

But Bellinger is still young, still cheap, and has shown all kinds of promise. So to a GM his value is crazy. The Dodgers have money but Andrew Friedman comes from the Rays and is actually pretty conservative considering their market. He is STILL getting rid of dumb contracts the previous administration had handed out.

If Bellinger were ever dealt this offseason (he won't) then it would be for a younger, cheaper very good player like a Realmuto. And I'd bet the Marlins know that too.

Dion A.
57m ago
Honestly, what are the Indians plans for the outfield? Also I feel trading Encarnacion is leaving another spot in the lineup 32 HR and 107 RBIs. What is the front offices expectations going forward?



Zack Meisel
51m ago
@Dion A. I still think they probably need to trade a SP to address that. Sure, they could give AJ Pollock a contract and then pray he doesn't get hurt. There aren't a ton of surefire, everyday guys in free agency. (Bryce Harper anyone? OK, I'll stop. But... No. Stop.)

I think Encarnacion had some disturbing trends last season and they're betting on Santana to maintain his production, which could be an upgrade or a wash if Encarnacion continues his decline at age 36.

1

James F.
56m ago
Did the FO make Brantley an offer? Any offer?



Zack Meisel
50m ago
@James F. I don't believe so, but I have yet to nail this down officially. It's on my to-do list.

1

Logan A.
55m ago
I saw yesterday that talks are cooling on a possible Kluber or Bauer trade. What are the benefits of NOT trading one of them? The FO can't be happy with the way the offense/defense looks at the moment and moving them does not destroy our rotation by any means. What would be the reasoning behind not moving them? Thanks, Zack. Love your work and Happy Holidays!



Zack Meisel
49m ago
@Logan A. The benefit of not keeping the rotation intact would be this: If you get to October, you don't need Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer, Clevinger, Bieber. And you have a shoddy bullpen. So you take one or two of those guys and help the pen.

But there's more upside with a trade, I think, than with keeping the rotation as is, especially if they then go out and sign a No. 5 SP or bring one back in a trade.


James K.
41m ago
Why wouldn’t they spend the money on an OF that they would spend on a SP? That seems weird to me



Zack Meisel
30m ago
@James K. I didn't say they wouldn't


James K.
11m ago
@Zack Meisel It just seems to me that if they could afford a starting pitcher, we could afford a starting outfielder...



Zack Meisel
5m ago
@James K. They aren't trading a SP to save money, they're trading one to fill all of their holes


Dion A.
55m ago
Also to expand what is the situation with catcher? Is Roberto Perez really the everyday catcher now? Again more offense is lost with the trade of Gomes.


MATTHEW L.
50m ago
I think the idea was to sell high on gomes with the though he wont replicate last year and Perez will move towards more adequate production

1


Zack Meisel
48m ago
@Dion A. They'll sign a veteran catcher (or maybe trade for one) before March. I'm not sure the skill level of said catcher, so my guess would be that they take the best two of the three (Perez, Haase, addition)

1


Zack Meisel
47m ago
@MATTHEW L. This is true, too, and I know they initially asked for a *lot* more for Gomes. Like, had other front offices laughing at them. But how they ended up settling for what they did is a bit of a head-scratcher. I do think they like Jefry Rodriguez.

1

Justin L.
54m ago
The way the relief market has stalled, do you think Cody Allen winds up settling for a 1 year deal? What do you think the Indians interest will be if it gets to that point? I assume even with the money gone from Encarnacion, Gomes and Alonso, that they will not be in the mix for Ottovino or Robertson.



Zack Meisel
29m ago
@Justin L. It's weird to think that, given how good he was for so long before last season's struggles. But yeah, that's certainly possible. I could see a 1-year, $8 million deal with a team to build back up his value. Or maybe 2 for 16.


Dylan M.
54m ago
Are the Indians confident that Roberto Perez will up his offensive production with more regular play, or are they just willing to take the hit to shed Yan Gomes' salary?



Zack Meisel
46m ago
@Dylan M. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. I think they thought Gomes would regress a bit and that Perez can't possibly be as dreadful as he was last season. I also think they wanted to shed Gomes' salary.


Sidney C.
53m ago
Is there any likelihood that the Indians trade for Jose Martinez to be their primary DH. They can put Bauers in left and Santana at 1st. They can just shuffle the three around each night. Then they trade Kluber to the Reds or the Dodger and get back a reliever, an outfielder and a prospect. Heck they may swap Kluber in a 3 team deal that lands them Martinez, Senzel/Verdugo and a reliever. I really think they have to trade Kluber or Bauer this winter to make the team better. They can then fill in the rest with some minor free agent signings. I like this lineup:

Santana-1B
Lindor-SS
Ramirez-2B
Martinez-DH
Bauers-LF
Senzel-3B
Kipnis-RF
Martin-CF
Perez-C

Of course, all of this is assuming that Jose Ramirez figures out his severe slump he had last year and is 90% the player he was.



Zack Meisel
45m ago
@Sidney C. Martinez could make sense, especially since he probably wouldn't cost too much in a trade, but that would mean a lot of outfield for Bauers.

That lineup isn't *horrible* but they have to find a way to improve that bottom third. Blah.


Andy G.
22m ago
Couldn't Martinez play RF while Santana is here, and slide to DH in a year or two while Bauers and Santana play 1b/DH? Martinez and Schwarber seem destined for the AL



Zack Meisel
4m ago
@Andy G. Any way you size it up, it's an unideal defensive alignment. But also, beggars can't be choosers.



Zack Meisel
53m ago
Hey, y'all. Let's chat.

2

Jamies H.
49m ago
A Win - Win Trade would be Kluber to the Atlanta Braves !!!



Zack Meisel
45m ago
@Jamies H. For whom...


Jamies H.
40m ago
Pache, Toussaint, and either Wright or Anderson.



Zack Meisel
29m ago
@Jamies H. Doesn't help you in 2019, though


Dion A.
27m ago
@Zack Meisel I think that is the problem we are in with any of these trades. Do we compete or plan for the future? I feel like if you don't commit one way or another it is a recipe for disaster.



Zack Meisel
4m ago
@Dion A. That's why the odds are against a trade actually happening. The rumors you hear that make the most sense (Dodgers, Reds I guess) give the Indians a chance to be better in 2019 and beyond.


Brian W.
53m ago
If the Tribe doesn't trade a starter will they look to add an outfielder? Would they be open to adding someone like Brian Dozier and moving Kip to left?



Zack Meisel
44m ago
@Brian W. Yeah, they told Kipnis that he might be in the outfield next season, depending on the makeup of the roster.

I think they'll sign a free agent outfielder (or trade for a legit one). I also think there's enough depth in the 2B market that they might be able to snag someone there, too.

1

Dan W.
53m ago
What seems more likely at this point in the offseason: Signing a free agent OF, free agent RP or a free agent 3B and moving Kipnis to LF?



Zack Meisel
43m ago
@Dan W. OF, but honestly, they should do at least two of those things


Alexander R.
52m ago
Corey Kluber for Bradley Rolls - who says no?

1


Zack Meisel
43m ago
@Alexander R. The mighty Paper Company hang up and block Chris Antonetti's number.

1

Brett F.
52m ago
According to Zac Jackson, the Indians don’t matter anymore. Can you get him off my lawn?

1

James F.
50m ago
@Brett F. Don't be lazy. Set the Popeye's chicken box in the neighbors yard yourself.



Zack Meisel
42m ago
@Brett F. How many White Claws did he house before he said this?

2

Bryce H.
51m ago
Who are you hearing are the realistic trade partners for the Indians whether it's for Kip or a SP or to get a RP or OF?



Zack Meisel
41m ago
@Bryce H. Realistic trade partner for Kipnis: Literally any team (AL, NL, Japan, Korea, Independent, Beer League) who will take his contract, even if it means the Indians need to include a little extra.

Realistic trade partners for Kluber/Bauer: Dodgers, Reds ... Phillies, Brewers ... Braves ... Padres, in that order


MATTHEW L.
51m ago
What are realistic options to upgrade lineup if Cleveland doesnt trade kluber. Doesn't sound too promising that FO is going to reinvest the 20 MM they saved in trades. I think good scenario is to trade for verdugo, Dennis Santana and Jeter downs and replace kluber contract with aj Pollock



Zack Meisel
39m ago
@MATTHEW L. I think that's one way to do it, though the Dodgers would have to cough up a bit more (another major leaguer like Chris Taylor or Kike Hernandez or, shit, Joc Pederson would need to be involved). I still think the Indians are holding out for Cody Bellinger, which probably won't happen.

Consider: The Indians have saved about $21M on the '19 payroll. If they trade away Kluber, that's another $17.5M. If someone would take Kipnis off their hands (plus a prospect or big-leaguer), that's another $14M+. There's money to play with, even if they wanted to slightly decrease payroll. (Did someone whisper Bryce Harper? No? OK, hearing things. Carry on.)


Jonathan S.
37m ago
Bryyyyyycccceeeee


Dion A.
36m ago
@Zack Meisel So what would that be? One year of a crazy contract to Bryce Harper, like $40 million? Then he can go back to free agency?


MATTHEW L.
35m ago
Agree with having money to play with if kluber and kip traded but dont thk there will be much if neither are traded .. thinking 110-115 will be new payroll number next few years



Zack Meisel
27m ago
@Dion A. Nah, he'll get a mega deal. But it'll have opt-out clauses. It won't be in Cleveland. (But why not? Because they don't operate that way. But can't they? They've cleared a ton of money. What are they up to? -- I cannot stop arguing with myself about this. Article coming soon.)


Frank S.
50m ago
Zack, I see the Padres have come up as a possible partner for a kluber deal. I don't like this at all. Is it feasible to think that San Diego is simply a way to get Bellinger out of Friedman, or could a package of Margot, Renfroe, hedges plus do the trick? Also, what advice do you have for an amateur baseball blogger such as myself? Happy New Year and go Tribe.



Zack Meisel
37m ago
@Frank S. I don't like the Padres' potential package at all, and I don't see why the front office would, either. There's no headliner there. Margot is gifted, but I'm not sure how much he would really help the Indians in 2019. Renfroe is fine, unspectacular. Hedges hasn't hit. I like Franmil Reyes and I still love Francisco Mejia's bat, but there isn't the marquee name (Tatis isn't going anywhere) that warrants Kluber.

1


Zack Meisel
35m ago
And yes, it's possible the Padres rumor was leaked to drum up more interest. Every single rumor at this time of year has motive behind it. Remember when talks with the Dodgers were supposedly "intensifying" two weeks ago? It's all a game. Some reporters sort through the bullshit. Some run with anything. Fans are often left to think that things are imminent when they aren't.


Quincy W.
25m ago
@Zack Meisel the only additional piece I like is Urias, and he could help now, but is not a centerpiece type on his own


Quincy W.
49m ago
It doesn't seem like the Indians are being connected to any free agents yet. I get that it's early, but isn't it a little strange to not see any rumors about Lowrie or Dozier?



Zack Meisel
34m ago
@Quincy W. It's rare for the Indians to be linked to free agents, period. But the free agent market has developed s o o o o o slowly. I figure Harper and Machado will sign in early-ish January. And then maybe it'll start to take shape. But this is worse than last winter, it seems.

(I'd also be on board for either of those guys you mentioned)

1

Joe S.
49m ago
A question about being a baseball writer in general: what exactly do you and T.J. and other writers do in the press box during actual games? I've always been curious what you guys get out of being up there for all 3 hours that you couldn't get just watching the game on TV? I understand you need to be at the park for pre and post game interviews, but what goes on during the game?



Zack Meisel
32m ago
@Joe S. During the game, the value comes from talking to each other, thinking out loud. The actual value of covering a game in general comes from the clubhouse access, interviews, randomly running into front office members or other sources in the dugout that you definitely weren't stalking for the last 45 minutes.

We all have FanGraphs, Baseball Reference, Baseball Savant, Twitter and Hardball Dynasty open on our laptops during games. We make many trips to the dining room.

But to your point, having TVs in the press box is critical. It's a much better view of the action, and having replays is essential.

3

Matt W.
49m ago
Are the Indians still looking for a catcher, or will they roll with Perez and Haase?



Zack Meisel
31m ago
@Matt W. They plan to add someone to the mix (either for competition or to be a member of the Opening Day roster)


Dion A.
48m ago
Did the front office sour on Yandy Diaz or do they rate Jake Bauers that highly?



Zack Meisel
31m ago
@Dion A. They liked Bauers, and the Rays really liked Bauers (he was a top-50 prospect going into last season). But I also think the Indians never really trusted that Diaz would hit for power or become a reliable third baseman, whether fair or not.


Shawn S.
47m ago
Any chance the Indians can sign AJ Pollock to solidify the OF? And who are a few relievers on the market still to watch for a Tribe signing?



Zack Meisel
24m ago
@Shawn S. He makes as much sense as any other FA OF. There are a billion relievers out there still. Zach Britton? Kelvin Herrera? Shawn Kelley? Adam Warren? AJ Ramos? Cody Allen?


Dominic A.
47m ago
If Cleveland doesn’t trade Kluber after seeing the offers they have for him, does that prompt them to go for free agents in the OF and bullpen? Has there been any close talks of an Oliver Perez return?



Zack Meisel
3m ago
@Dominic A. Yeah, they need to play in free agency regardless. Haven't heard anything about Perez's market. Guessing he'll get a one-year deal somewhere.

1

Dan W.
46m ago
Who are some realistic and within Indians budget free agent outfielders and relief pitchers at which the Indians may take a close look?


Corey H.
46m ago
Who wins the AL Central next year?


Dion A.
31m ago
@Corey H. It is definitely still the Indians to lose even if we don't do anything more. Although the Twins will be a little bit better with the Nelson Cruz signing. Even the White Sox are a couple of years away.


Corey H.
29m ago
@Dion A. It's closer than people think. Without any further moves, I believe we will struggle mightily to win the division.

1


Zack Meisel
23m ago
@Corey H. At this moment, a lot would still have to go right for the Twins and a lot would have to go wrong for the Indians for the division results to change. But there's a tonnnn of offseason remaining for both teams to get a lot better.

1

Jason C.
45m ago
Do you see Yu Chang as a viable utility infield option, or do you think they’ll look for someone else later in free agency to fill Erik Gonzales’ role?



Zack Meisel
23m ago
@Jason C. I think Max Moroff could be the guy early on, and then if he falters, Chang could get the call. If he isn't traded, Chang seems like he'll make an impact in 2019.


Ethan S.
21m ago
Do you anticipate him being dealt? Have you heard him mentioned as a guy being dangled? Maybe pair him w Kipnis?



Zack Meisel
19m ago
@Ethan S. I have not heard his name specifically tied to Kipnis. He probably has a bit too much value for that. I do think they'd prefer not to move McKenzie. I think they could tap into that lower tier, of which Chang is a part, if they needed to acquire some major-league talent.


James F.
41m ago
Have they been in on any FA's that have signed elsewhere?



Zack Meisel
18m ago
@James F. Did free agency start yet?


STEVE M.
32m ago
Since Mr Dolan is counting his beans. Have you heard anything on season ticket sales? I am sure they have stagnated or dropped off but I am curious to see numbers



Zack Meisel
21m ago
@STEVE M. Last I heard, they were expecting things to stay the same, maybe decrease a tad. The All-Star Game being here helps. They expect 2 million for a season's worth of attendance to be about their ceiling these days.


Mark L.
32m ago
How's this for a plan for 3B? 2019 - Tulowitzky. 2020 - Chang



Zack Meisel
20m ago
@Mark L. I'm fine with Tulo since it's super low-risk, but you can't just hand him 162 games. You have to have a legit contingency plan -- and he has to agree to play third.


Quincy W.
31m ago
Your personal odds we see a significant move from the Tribe before Tribe Fest?



Zack Meisel
20m ago
@Quincy W. That's not fair. Tribe Fest is a week early this year! I'll say 60%.

1

Andrew C.
26m ago
Are the rumors that the team is now less-inclined to trade Kluber/Bauer just FO spin to get better leverage in trade negotiations? If not, I just don't get it - shouldn't the team have MORE pressure to make a deal after cutting payroll (and not adding much new talent)?



Zack Meisel
17m ago
@Andrew C. It's not front office spin because it's not something the front office would ever address directly. I think the pressure to move those guys is to fill all of the holes in the outfield, infield and bullpen, not to save more money. They could tell teams that they're going to fill those holes via free agency as a negotiating tactic, but I'm not sure the $21M they've saved is enough to cover all of their glaring needs.


Andy G.
26m ago
What do you think their interest level in Adam Jones or Dieterich is for a corner OF spot? Dieterich would give them their always coveted position flexibility, and Jones, while on the back 9 of his career, is still an upgrade from what we have now. I've also read about Hunter Pence reinventing his swing. Might he be a realistic buy low guy?



Zack Meisel
13m ago
@Andy G. Dietrich is OK. Probably a platoon guy, but also was horrendous in LF last season. So, not sure there. Adam Jones ... eh. I guess if you plug him in in a corner spot, he could be close to league average. But they already have guys like that.

They have Naquin and Martin and Allen and Luplow and Mercado and Kipnis -- they need actual, no-doubt talent in the outfield.


Andy G.
8m ago
Outside of Brantley last year, our OF was probably well below league average with that cast of characters, so those guys would be an improvement, no? I guess Avisail Garcia and Markakis would be a step up from the previously mentioned.


Alex K.
21m ago
What's more pressing right now, OF or bullpen? I think our OF isn't great, but survivable. The bullpen is a disaster till you get to Hand.



Zack Meisel
16m ago
@Alex K. Outfield, because there are other holes in the lineup (second base, catcher, still not sold on first base/DH being a juggernaut). That said, the bullpen desperately needs help, too. It's Brad Hand and a pile of lottery tickets that were dropped in the mud.


Zachary A.
18m ago
Zack, I am also a Zach, but spelled correctly. How does it feel to know your parents can't spell correctly?



Zack Meisel
13m ago
@Zachary A. Have you ever met anyone named Nicholas who goes by Nich? Boom. Lawyered.

2

Zachary A.
6m ago
So this is how the Colonel in A Few Good Men felt.


Brittany H.
17m ago
The Browns and Cavs have Spanish radio broadcasts. Any plans for the Indians to have one? It would be cool to hear a Rafa Hernandez-Brito home run call.



Zack Meisel
12m ago
@Brittany H. Good question. Would be a great idea, and I'm kind of surprised this doesn't happen already. I'll look into this more.


Alex K.
17m ago
Regardless of it helps the team "extend their window" trading Kluber or Bauer for a centerpiece that is a year or two away can't be good for attendance this year. Do you think the the Browns turning things around factor into their decision making at all for attendance/revenue projections?



Zack Meisel
9m ago
@Alex K. I don't, but I think it should, because clearly attendance plays into how they operate and they couldn't have struck a worse chord with the fan base than they have the last few months.

I don't understand how they can sell new fans on coming out to watch this team next season based on how last season ended and how the offseason has unfolded. That's why I can't get it out of my head that they have something up their sleeve. Fans won't care about the Indians come late July anyway. For the Indians to remain in the city's good graces and have any shot of preventing a decline in attendance/interest, they need to make some major moves that show, without question, the team can be better in 2019 than it was in 2018.


Andy G.
14m ago
With the team being as payroll conscious as they are, and as obsessed with minimizing risk as they are, why did they pay Salazar what they did? Are they really expecting him to earn his $4.5 mil this year?



Zack Meisel
8m ago
@Andy G. They feel confident enough in it to know they didn't want to see him sign for that elsewhere and produce. They could still trade him. Or let him finish his recovery and then experiment with a bullpen role.


Dion A.
13m ago
I think the hardest part this offseason has been mixed messages to us fans? We are still in our window to compete but we are shedding salary. I feel like if we don't reinvest the savings we have shed then it will be a sign that getting to the playoffs is "good enugh." What is the highest salary could be that ownership is comfortable? Even if we went beyond is it enough to compete with the Astros, Red Sox, and Yankees?



Zack Meisel
5m ago
@Dion A. Yeah, not that the front office has time to care about that sort of thing, but you're right. That's why I mentioned above, they have to now make some moves to win the fans back. I don't know what ownership has demanded. They'll never comment specifically on that. I've asked Antonetti about 94 times this offseason for a ballpark payroll estimation. He said he hasn't been given one. Clearly, there's some range they're working toward. But yeah, this has not been a healthy offseason for fan sentiment.


Dion A.
3m ago
@Zack Meisel Do the Indians get any significant revenue by hosting the All Star game this year?


Kevin S.
12m ago
The more I think about it, the best deal that the Tribe could feasibly receive for Kluber would be from Cincinnati headlined by Nick Senzel that included Jesse Winker and a reliever not named Raisel Iglesias. Senzel immediately becomes your starting third baseman for, hopefully, several seasons while Winker is plugged in everyday at the two hole in the lineup and in LF or RF. Cincinnati receives the ace they are sorely lacking albeit at a high price although Senzel is currently blocked at both 3B and 2B and Winker has to fight for playing time with Puig and Kemp now on the roster. It almost makes too much sense not to happen.

1


Zack Meisel
7m ago
@Kevin S. I would agree to that deal in a heartbeat. The Reds have too many OFs as it is. I have no idea why they'd want to trade Senzel, though. But it's the Reds, so if that's on the table, the Indians have to do it. That's the sort of trade that would make the Indians better in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024. No-brainer.


Andy G.
7m ago
I love Winker. High OBP guy with developing power. Senzel was hurt most of last year- kind of a lost season for him.


Jason C.
6m ago
Since the Tribe was linked to Puig earlier, any chance he is flipped into a deal for Kluber?


Jason C.
11m ago
Do you see Chih-Wei Hu factoring into the bullpen this year?



Zack Meisel
8m ago
@Jason C. Yeah, given the lack of sure things out there, he'll get a chance at some point.

ny chance the Indians can sign AJ Pollock to solidify the OF? And who are a few relievers on the market still to watch for a Tribe signing?


Zack Meisel
37m ago
@Shawn S. He makes as much sense as any other FA OF. There are a billion relievers out there still. Zach Britton? Kelvin Herrera? Shawn Kelley? Adam Warren? AJ Ramos? Cody Allen?

Dan W.
1h ago
What seems more likely at this point in the offseason: Signing a free agent OF, free agent RP or a free agent 3B and moving Kipnis to LF?


Zack Meisel
56m ago
@Dan W. OF, but honestly, they should do at least two of those things

Dion A.
1h ago
Did the front office sour on Yandy Diaz or do they rate Jake Bauers that highly?


Zack Meisel
43m ago
@Dion A. They liked Bauers, and the Rays really liked Bauers (he was a top-50 prospect going into last season). But I also think the Indians never really trusted that Diaz would hit for power or become a reliable third baseman, whether fair or not.

Matt W.
1h ago
Are the Indians still looking for a catcher, or will they roll with Perez and Haase?


Zack Meisel
44m ago
@Matt W. They plan to add someone to the mix (either for competition or to be a member of the Opening Day roster)

Bryce H.
1h ago
Who are you hearing are the realistic trade partners for the Indians whether it's for Kip or a SP or to get a RP or OF?


Zack Meisel
54m ago
@Bryce H. Realistic trade partner for Kipnis: Literally any team (AL, NL, Japan, Korea, Independent, Beer League) who will take his contract, even if it means the Indians need to include a little extra.

Realistic trade partners for Kluber/Bauer: Dodgers, Reds ... Phillies, Brewers ... Braves ... Padres, in that order

Dan W.
59m ago
Who are some realistic and within Indians budget free agent outfielders and relief pitchers at which the Indians may take a close look?


Zack Meisel
9m ago
@Dan W. There are a ton of both, and a lot will still be leftover a few weeks from now, given how slowly this offseason has moved. (I mentioned some names for both spots throughout this chat)

Jason C.
57m ago
Do you see Yu Chang as a viable utility infield option, or do you think they’ll look for someone else later in free agency to fill Erik Gonzales’ role?


Zack Meisel
35m ago
@Jason C. I think Max Moroff could be the guy early on, and then if he falters, Chang could get the call. If he isn't traded, Chang seems like he'll make an impact in 2019.

Ethan S.
34m ago
Do you anticipate him being dealt? Have you heard him mentioned as a guy being dangled? Maybe pair him w Kipnis?


Zack Meisel
31m ago
@Ethan S. I have not heard his name specifically tied to Kipnis. He probably has a bit too much value for that. I do think they'd prefer not to move McKenzie. I think they could tap into that lower tier, of which Chang is a part, if they needed to acquire some major-league talent.

MATTHEW L.
1h ago
What are realistic options to upgrade lineup if Cleveland doesnt trade kluber. Doesn't sound too promising that FO is going to reinvest the 20 MM they saved in trades. I think good scenario is to trade for verdugo, Dennis Santana and Jeter downs and replace kluber contract with aj Pollock


Zack Meisel
51m ago
@MATTHEW L. I think that's one way to do it, though the Dodgers would have to cough up a bit more (another major leaguer like Chris Taylor or Kike Hernandez or, shit, Joc Pederson would need to be involved). I still think the Indians are holding out for Cody Bellinger, which probably won't happen.

Consider: The Indians have saved about $21M on the '19 payroll. If they trade away Kluber, that's another $17.5M. If someone would take Kipnis off their hands (plus a prospect or big-leaguer), that's another $14M+. There's money to play with, even if they wanted to slightly decrease payroll. (Did someone whisper Bryce Harper? No? OK, hearing things. Carry on.)

Jonathan S.
50m ago
Bryyyyyycccceeeee

Dion A.
49m ago
@Zack Meisel So what would that be? One year of a crazy contract to Bryce Harper, like $40 million? Then he can go back to free agency?

MATTHEW L.
48m ago
Agree with having money to play with if kluber and kip traded but dont thk there will be much if neither are traded .. thinking 110-115 will be new payroll number next few years


Zack Meisel
40m ago
@Dion A. Nah, he'll get a mega deal. But it'll have opt-out clauses. It won't be in Cleveland. (But why not? Because they don't operate that way. But can't they? They've cleared a ton of money. What are they up to? -- I cannot stop arguing with myself about this. Article coming soon.)

Mark L.
44m ago
How's this for a plan for 3B? 2019 - Tulowitzky. 2020 - Chang


Zack Meisel
33m ago
@Mark L. I'm fine with Tulo since it's super low-risk, but you can't just hand him 162 games. You have to have a legit contingency plan -- and he has to agree to play third.

STEVE M.
45m ago
Since Mr Dolan is counting his beans. Have you heard anything on season ticket sales? I am sure they have stagnated or dropped off but I am curious to see numbers


Zack Meisel
33m ago
@STEVE M. Last I heard, they were expecting things to stay the same, maybe decrease a tad. The All-Star Game being here helps. They expect 2 million for a season's worth of attendance to be about their ceiling these days.

James F.
53m ago
Have they been in on any FA's that have signed elsewhere?


Zack Meisel
31m ago
@James F. Did free agency start yet?

Andrew C.
39m ago
Are the rumors that the team is now less-inclined to trade Kluber/Bauer just FO spin to get better leverage in trade negotiations? If not, I just don't get it - shouldn't the team have MORE pressure to make a deal after cutting payroll (and not adding much new talent)?


Zack Meisel
30m ago
@Andrew C. It's not front office spin because it's not something the front office would ever address directly. I think the pressure to move those guys is to fill all of the holes in the outfield, infield and bullpen, not to save more money. They could tell teams that they're going to fill those holes via free agency as a negotiating tactic, but I'm not sure the $21M they've saved is enough to cover all of their glaring needs.

You just value Bellinger more than I do. I would prefer Verdugo. Higher average, higher OBP, walked more than he struck out in AAA against older competition. He's my kind of guy. I wouldn't let Bellinger stop me from getting an ace that may get us over the top when I have Verdugo waiting in the wings.

Here's one Dodgers' fans comment:

Minor league numbers don't always translate to the major league level. Verdugo looked average at best last year. Trade him for Kluber and sign Pollock, not Harper

You quote someone saying that minor league numbers don't always translate then proceed to post Bellinger's minor league rankings?

OK

Bellinger has played 2 years in majors now. He struck out over 150 times his second year, and hit .260 w/ 25 and 76.

Some times it does translate. He hit .260 with 150 K's in A ball too.

Verdugo only had 77 major league at bats last year and hit .260. ... He's hit over .320 in 800 AAA at bats. Hit .309 in minor league career in about 2000 at bats while only striking out 247 times. He will hit.

Bellinger will too. He will hit homers. But he will strike out a lot more and not get on base as much too. I wouldn't let either of them stop me from trading for an ace, but for me personally I will take Verdugo for the long run. And I surely do not care what some Dodgers fan thinks who writes Verdugo off after only 77 AB's. What a moron.

I really do not think that the Indians are interested in Bellinger at all. I think they want players with less major league time but with immediate major league talent. They are fishing for controllable players to carry on after Lindor and others leave for bigger dollars.

i'm just quoting different opinion.

Cleveland Indians: The real truth about this baseball winter for Tribe – Terry Pluto
Updated Jan 4; Posted 6:00 AM
Staff Photographer
Shane Bieber is one of the reasons the Indians can afford to trade a starting pitcher. Photo by Chuck Crow /The Plain Dealer. (Chuck Crow)

296
23
shares
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer tpluto@plaind.com
ABOUT THE FUTURE

1. I’m not going to spend a lot of time digging into all the facts about the Tribe’s winter budget. That can lead to being swamped by numbers and missing the big point in the process.

2. The Indians have cut about $14 million from their 2019 payroll, especially by shipping out Edwin Encarnacion (Seattle), Yan Gomes (Washington) and Yonder Alonso (White Sox) in trades. You can even find up to $21 million in savings as the Tribe has allowed players such as Michael Brantley (Houston), Andrew Miller (St. Louis) and Lonnie Chisenhall (Pittsburgh) to sign elsewhere via free agency.

3. But the Indians are not going to take $14 million or $21 million or whatever big number you want to use and add it back into the payroll. Fans don’t want to hear how the Tribe has run up significant deficits in the last two seasons. I outlined that a few weeks ago.

4. You can argue they should continue to spend big with a middle-of-the-pack payroll while the attendance still remains in the bottom third of baseball. I’ll simply tell you the painful truth: It’s not going to happen this winter.

5. I’ve been told that by people who know. It’s what I heard not long after the playoffs ended abruptly with a sweep by Houston – and nothing has changed.


6. The more interesting question is, given payroll restraints, how does the team improve? Carlos Santana has offered to play left field, at least part time. Even if Santana does play the outfield, it’s still a sorry situation compared to most teams.

7. Right field would be a platoon of Jordan Luplow and Tyler Naquin. Center field has Greg Allen and Leonys Martin. Left field would be Santana and....well... newly acquired Jake Bauers can play left.

8. A big setback was when Bradley Zimmer suffered a major shoulder injury last season and had surgery. It’s not clear if Zimmer will be ready for opening day. He is recovering, but his surgery was serious. Zimmer was an excellent prospect in center before he was hurt.

9. It’s obvious the Indians need a real big league outfielder. They are not going to sign a free agent who fits that job description. That’s why the trade rumors involving starters Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer will continue.

10. Right now, the Indians supposedly are less inclined to deal one of their starters. Perhaps that is the message they are sending other teams. But the Indians know the lineup has to be improved. They know a deal for Kluber or Bauer could be a season-changing move for the team that acquires of a pitcher of their magnitude.


11. The Indians want a lot for either starter. They want someone who can help now – and top prospects. Kluber is signed for three years. Bauer is under club control for two more years. Both are “bargains" by the inflated price of prime starting pitching.

12. The front office of Chris Antonetti and Mike Chernoff has made bold moves before. They also make surprise moves. Did anyone see a deal that led to Encarnacion leaving and Santana returning? It was no secret the Indians were marketing Encarnacion and his $25 million salary. But Santana’s return was a surprise.

13. The Indians will probably wait as free agent pitchers Dallas Keuchel, Gio Gonzalez and Derek Holland eventually sign with teams. Those who fail to add a prominent starter in free agency will then be in the market for a trade. That’s why I don’t believe the Indians will enter spring training without having made one more big move.

Staff Photographer
In the last two seasons, Mike Clevinger has a 25-14 record and 3.06 ERA. Photo by Chuck Crow / Plain Dealer. Chuck Crow
ABOUT SHANE BIEBER & MIKE CLEVINGER

1. The Indians are able to trade a starter because they have young starting pitching on the roster. It starts with Mike Clevinger, who has a 25-14 record and a 3.06 ERA over the last two seasons. Clevinger has been terrific the last two years. He’s 28, and he’s still a year away from arbitration.



2. The Indians have Clevinger under control for four more seasons. He would seem to be an excellent candidate to sign a contract extension. The Indians don’t work on those deals until spring training.

3. Clevinger is represented by the same agency (ACES) as Carlos Carrasco, who recently signed a 2-year extension. Carrasco (17-10, 3.38 ERA) is under team control through 2022 and the Tribe has a $14 million option on him for 2023. So the Indians have a good relationship with the agency. Clevinger should be open to a deal.

4. The Indians will have either Bauer or Kluber (if there is a trade) along with Carrasco and Clevinger at the top of the rotation. The Indians believe Shane Bieber is ready to make a major impact.

5. The 23-year-old Bieber bolted to the majors despite only 50 minor league starts – eight in Class AAA. He was 11-5 with a 4.55 ERA. He had 118 strikeouts in 115 innings. He walked only 23 in 20 starts.

6. Bieber has a Kluber-like work ethic and focus. That’s one of the reasons the Tribe is so excited about seeing him for a full year in the rotation. He needs to develop a changeup, which will help him against lefties (batted .316 vs. Bieber).

7. So the rotation right now has Kluber/Bauer/Carrasco/Clevinger/Bieber. It remains one of the best in baseball.


8. The Indians also have Cody Anderson fully healthy after Tommy John elbow surgery. Anderson was 7-3 with a 3.05 ERA on 2015. Then he developed arm problems. The Tribe will train Anderson as a starter in Goodyear, but he could end up being an important part of the bullpen.

9. The Tribe also has 27-year-old Adam Plutko, who was 4-5 with a 5.28 ERA as a spot starter in 2018. He was up and down, but showed some promise. Top prospect Triston McKenzie was 7-4 with a 2.68 ERA at Class AA Akron in 2018. He’ll open the season at Class AAA, but he could advance quickly – much like Bieber did in 2018. McKenzie is only 21 years old.

10. I spent time going through the rotation to highlight the depth – and why I think trading a starter is a real possibility. The rotation is why the Indians probably will be in the 2019 playoffs. Few teams have this kind of starting pitching.

11. You don’t see Danny Salazar mentioned because he’s still coming back slowly from shoulder surgery. I see no reason to even write his name in pencil until he begins pitching in games. He has had so many stalled comebacks in the last few years.

You don’t see Danny Salazar mentioned because he’s still coming back slowly from shoulder surgery. I see no reason to even write his name in pencil until he begins pitching in games. He has had so many stalled comebacks in the last few years.

And in further news: "Danny Salazar (shoulder) isn't expected to be healthy enough to begin the 2019 season with the Indians, Joe Noga of Cleveland.com reports. Salazar was expected to [DID HE?] start a throwing program in mid-December, though the Indians are already fairly certain the right-hander won't break camp with the big-league club when spring training comes to a close. He'll likely need to spend at least a few weeks in the minors rehabbing until he's ready to return to the major leagues. A better idea of Salazar's availability should become clearer as the season approaches."

IN DANNY SALAZAR WORLD, "AT LEAST A FEW WEEKS" MEANS MONTHS IF WE'RE LUCKY. Good investment inking him for 2019