Cali:

Since our conversation was getting a bit political I figured I would move over here...

San Fran governs least????



I really don't know what to say, Cali. You obviously love your city. That's all that matters. I will tell you where I am coming from, but don't get mad at me. Just look at it as one dumb guys opinion....

I will say that I would agree with you that they govern close to the people. The unfortunate part is the people are freaks.

Just one example off the top of my head .... have you noticed that your city has had a stench in recent years? It came a national story back during the World Series and that's how I heard about it.

You probably know why your city stinks, literally, but for those that don't ...

When brit Thomas Crapper invented the toilet it was based on a design where 7 gallons of water caused it to flush. Back when America was still very innovative we improved the model to cause it to flush on 3 1/2 gallons. They worked great.

But that was just too much water for the environmental lobbyists. They passed the Energy Policy Act in 1992 with a provision that said from now on every toilet would only use 1.6 gallons of water to flush. These didn't work as well.

Of course the fine folks of San Fran took it even a step further. Giving people tax money to trade their old crappers in on these new environmentally friendly models that didn't work as well. Since then the city has had to spend hundreds of millions upgrading their sewer system and plants to combat the problem. Roto Rooter and toilet cleaning product business has boomed.

But that wasn't enough yet either. The city started giving people $125 to trade in on yet another new model that only used a little over 1 1/4 gallons to flush. Forget the old two flusher, we may be talking 3.

The sewer improvements were not enough and that's why the people attending the World Series were exposed to the horrible smell. During low tide as the bay water ebbs, microscopic organisms in the mud are exposed to air and rapidly begin to decay, creating a rotten smell.

Now the city is having to spend millions to stock up on sodium hypochlorite, or bleach, to combat the problem yet again..

And this was all started because eco freaks didn't want to build a resevoir and wanted to use too little water to flush.

Again, this is just one example. That city, time and time again, tells it's citizens how to live. A few more off the top of my head ...

You want a Happy Meal, tough $#!^, we're banning Happy Meals. We'll tell you what to eat.

You want to practice your religion, tough, we are banning circumcision. Forget that pesky constitution that says no laws passed prohibiting your freedom to worship.

You want an aquarium, tough, we'll tell you what kind of pet to have. And if you want a dog we will tell you EXACTLY how to feed and water it. Literally.

You want a Coke, tough, we'll tell you what to drink.

You want plastic not paper, tough, we banned plastic.

Again, you love your city and that's great and it's none of my damn business. Who cares what I think. But please don't try to tell me that San Francisco practices Jefferson or Paine ideals of "that government is best which governs least". They are the exact antithesis of that ideology. It is the ultimate Nanny State.

Oh, I thought he said that SF does NOT get an "A" on the "governs least" part.

Cool story about the toilets, though.

Yes, The City of San Francisco certainly does NOT get an "A" for governing least.

VT had my correct intent but I'm with you all on way on your litany HB


There was a local article out here recently on The City needing to treat the stench with bleach, though the history of the cause was not detailed.

I don't mean to directly disagree, but only to note that I have voted predominantly Republican for 35 years but I see the silver lining in The San Francisco clouds of today.

And I do not mean the meth clouds.....which are everywhere in America now, unfortunately.

San Francisco is a great City with many great people. I just want to dissuade painting San Francisco with a broad brush ("Broad Brush" was a Triple Crown race horse).

San Francisco cannot be accurately cast into a pigeon holed category with majority accuracy for each of it's residents....or visitors.

There is damned sure enough here to make any Proud American, proud of America.


It just may take more perusal than it would in Great Falls, Southern Ohio, or South Carolina.

You mean I rambled on for 15 minutes when we actually agreed?

Sounds like something I'd do.

Sorry for the mishap.

The toilet story was cool? ... More worthless trivia .... the "Crapper" wasn't catching on in America until our boys returned home from Europe in World War 1. They loved it and spread the love here.

At least now you know where crap and crapper comes from. As for my previous post, flush it.

Well ok it wasn't that cool but I didn't want to sound too critical so I tried to throw in something upbeat.

Ah, and just when I was going to tell you how they used to take crappers in midieval times. Obviously it is your loss....

I just shared the sewer thing because I thought government telling you how to take a crap was a good and funny example of getting a little too much in our business. And how, once again, government getting involved almost always causes more problems than it helps.

HB on the walk along The Bay to AT&T Park this afternoon, the stench you accurately referenced was in full force.

It seemed almost strong enough I should have been able to snap an iPhone pic.

Like an appariton.


I didn't get it.


I'll call Ghostbusters for advice.

Maryland Adds Environmental Literacy in High Schools

By Jim Angle | FoxNews.com

Published June 27, 2011

Maryland is the first state in the country to impose a new requirement to graduate from high school -- something called environmental literacy.

But what is that? That is the question State Senator J. B. Jennings is asking.

"What kind of education is it going to be?” he asks. “Is it going to be fact-based? Or is it going to be theory-based, which is usually politically, theory driven. And you can think, it's going to be about global warming or climate change."

Sarah Bodor of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation supports the initiative and says there is no mandate.

"People express concern about the content but what is important to know is that this new requirement doesn't actually mandate any content at all."

The new rule is a regulation from the State Board of Education, not a law passed by the legislature, so it lays out no specifics. Governor Martin O'Malley offers no real details but praises it, saying it will "infuse core subjects with lessons about conservation and smart growth and the health of our natural world."

O’Malley also said it'll serve as a "foundation for green jobs," though one analyst says training for those is just like it is for any other job.

"You need to know how to get there on time, how to be alert, how to work hard, how to absorb a lot of information, how to - you know - learn new skills," says Myron Ebell of free market think tank, the Competitive Enterprise Institute."

The state education board leaves all content up to local school boards and a state official says " local systems will implement the requirement as they see fit."

Boder says students near the Chesapeake Bay could learn by doing.

"[K]ids have the opportunity to participate in some real world learning, such as raising native oysters and replenishing reef habitat,” Boder says. “By raising the oysters, they can learn math and read and write about the history of oystering in the state of Maryland and throughout the Chesapeake Bay and that gets them excited and that helps to boost their achievements."

No one would object to boosting achievement, but some analysts fear a broader, more political agenda would be in play. For instance, the local school boards won't get any extra money, so a group called the North American Association of Environmental Education offers a guide for teachers.

An early passage from the guide says “consumption of natural resources, air and water pollution, and the impacts of climate change are among the many complex challenges that threaten human health, economic development, and national security.” It goes on to talk about the need to "take informed action." And that raises some eyebrows.

"That is not really education," says Ebell. "It's propaganda and its designed to raise up a new generation of easily led and poorly educated and misinformed students."

And state lawmakers like J.B. Jennings note there are only so many hours in a school day, and only 180 days in a school year. So, he wonders, what in the current curriculum gets squeezed out?

"They can't just keep adding on and on, so they will have to make room for this by pushing other things out of the curriculum, which is going to be a concern," Jennings says.

He wants to know what will be pushed out to make room for these yet-undefined lessons aimed at "environmental literacy."

"It's propaganda and its designed to raise up a new generation of easily led and poorly educated and misinformed students."

And that's today's pot/kettle moment.

Public education has always been and always will be fodder for debate of what is most needed or effective.

I don't care a bit that none of my three daughters had "home ec" (home economics). I can walk them through spaghetti sauce or whatever they now as adults decide they want to prepare.

I care a little bit that my only son learned nothing about hand tools, power tools or the basics of automotive repair in public school. Seems like there should have been at least 12 weeks devoted to it. When I was in middle school our city experimented with a "12 week/module system" that I liked real time....and with the passage of time.


I've brought him up to speed on my own.....though our late male dog seemed to appreciate the teaching more. That dog would come out to my tool shed and sit and look at me and seemingly telepath "what's our next project?"

I floored the attic on the trusses in our garage. That darned dog would walk under the saw horses and plywood as I had the circular saw above him. When I finished the cut he would sit and look at me and I swear he was saying "that was a good cut." He was what I thought would have been a tooty fruity Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, but he never wanted to be clean. After the groomer came, he always quickly found a way to get dirty...and didn't care that he was. Though our female Miniature Australian Shepherd who is 14 1/2 and now by my feet always tried to clean him up. Sometimes he acquiesced.


I had 12 weeks of "shop" in 7th grade, and a semester of wood and metal shop in 8th. I'm very glad over the years that I did. I didn't want to spend high school hours on auto mechanics, so I took it in adult ed in the summer between my junior and senior years.

All those courses have paid dividends to me in life for being able to at least smartly diagnose needs and work for cars and home repairs in my life.

That said, I'm also glad public education taught me how to cipher and rite.


And an Edit: JR taught students how expand their vision and think, I do believe. Though I never did a classroom observation.

Really, VT'er?

Are there alot of stories out there about how right wingers are getting pro-life classes into the curriculum? Or how they're trying to force teachers to tell their students that taxes are bad?

I must have missed all those stories.

Giving it just a little bit of thought the only thing at all that is coming to me in there was a push a while back by some in Texas to include Creationalism along with "science" in textbooks. But that is not ramming through an agenda. They are not saying teach this and only this. They just wanted it out there as one of the options.

I don't see any pot & kettle here at all.

And it is not just the school boards and teachers unions in our high schools, it has entirely taken over our higher education systems as well. Especially in what is known to be elite universities.

In a study by George Mason University a while back 72% of college professors admitted to being liberals. 15% conservatives.

At schools one would consider "elite" it was more profound. 87% to 13%.

I know the progressives make plans behind the scenes to infiltrate and effect change. Hell, just look at the story this week of how much money George Soros is spending trying to get liberal judges on state courts. But I think it goes beyond that. I think the mindset of true conservatives push them more towards business where the minds of the true elitist liberal types push them more into teaching and nurturing. But that's just one mans worthless opinion.

Parents are becoming less involved with their kids so that just itensifies the problem. That's why you see so many idiot kids walking around today with Cha' and Mao t-shirts on. There is nobody telling them how stupid they are.

I'm with you HB, though I did not immediately catch a volley from VT'er.

Of course, what do I know? I'm watching the replay of South Carolina's clinching win in The College World Series.


By the way, formerly highly touted prospect Ben McDonald impressed me as a game analyst. I think his accent dissuades any baseball TV coverage promotions, unfortunately. He needs to learn more about NASCAR, or something.

"I care a little bit that my only son learned nothing about hand tools, power tools or the basics of automotive repair in public school."

I too have noticed a great deterioration in the ability of young 'uns to do anything useful with their hands apart from using keyboards and mice. It's not a good trend.

HB, as far as pot/kettle goes, you yourself answered the question with your example of Texas shitting on school curricula. The elite of both the left and the right have it in their best interests to be able to manipulate the masses. Only the styles are different. The right is happy to keep the masses uneducated, and the left is keen on giving the masses a great mind-f*** and telling them what to think.

And I too blame the parents.

"there was a push a while back by some in Texas to include Creationalism along with "science" in textbooks. But that is not ramming through an agenda."


That is not ramming through an agenda? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Same thing happened in Kansas, and it turned out that it most certainly WAS a fundamentalist Christian agenda-ram. All of the attempts to include creationism are exactly that. It's theology, not science.

I'm sorry, VT'er, you usually make sense and even when I don't agree with you I can usually see your point of view. But you are way off on this one. There are numberous issues in the news constantly of leftists pushing an agenda in our schools. I had to think hard to come up with one from the right. One.

And the one example I came up with was actually something that used to be taught in EVERY classroom in the country. Until it was forced out by leftists with an agenda...

You're way off.