Cleveland Sports Forum

That sure sounds like Harang starts, Carrasco relieves, and Tomlin goes to Columbus. Of course the way McAllister pitched yesterday there could be plenty of chances for Tomlin yet

GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- The lights came on and the baseballs flew out Tuesday night at Goodyear Ballpark. The Indians and Giants engaged in a Cactus League slugfest in the kind of back-and-forth contest that an Arizona evening can create.

Cleveland and San Francisco combined for seven home runs, two by the Indians' Yan Gomes, in a 12-11 Cleveland victory during the only night game of the spring for the Indians. Tribe starter Zach McAllister and San Francisco starter Ryan Vogelsong were both victimized by the high-octane offense.

McAllister -- Cleveland's No. 3 starter -- allowed three of San Francisco's four home runs and headed off the hill with six runs allowed on nine hits in only three innings. The big right-hander was originally scheduled to log five innings, but that plan went out the window as the ball carried all over the ballpark.

"It looked like it was a tough night out there to be a pitcher," Vogelsong said.

The Giants pounded out four hits in the first inning, which was highlighted by a two-run home run off the bat of Tyler Colvin. Pablo Sandoval and Hector Sanchez later connected for consecutive homers off McAllister to open the third inning. Sanchez's shot to deep right-center field exited Goodyear Ballpark after bouncing off a walkway behind the stands.

"I thought Zach actually threw the ball pretty well," said Indians manager Terry Francona. "He mislocated some pitches, obviously, but he actually threw the ball pretty well. They kind of had their hitting shoes on and so did we. Maybe it was the lights. I don't know. Everybody was swinging the bat."

Vogelsong, who is projected to open the year as the fifth starter for the Giants, was charged with nine runs (eight earned) on 11 hits in only 2 2/3 innings. The right-hander surrended two home runs and finished with three strikeouts and no walks in his abbreviated outing.

Jason Kipnis used a groundout to plate a run in the first inning and Gomes launched a leadoff homer off Vogelsong in the second. In the third inning, Cleveland broke through for seven runs on eight hits, including six straight hits at one point. Within that onslaught, bench candidate Jeff Francoeur belted a tape-measure, three-run homer to left field.

Asdrubal Cabrera, Michael Brantley and Bryan LaHair also chipped in RBI hits in the third.

The Giants countered with five more runs against Indians lefty Colt Hynes, who took over for McAllister in the fourth inning. San Francisco second baseman Brandon Hicks capped off that outburst with a three-run home run to left field off Hynes.

"It's one of those days when it was tough for a pitcher. The ball was carrying exceptionally today," said Giants manager Bruce Bochy.

Gomes gave Cleveland the lead with a two-run shot in the sixth off Santiago Casilla.

"That was nice to see," said Francona. "Gomer, he's a good hitter. I think Gomer, for a young kid that hasn't caught a lot, he understands his responsbility really well. I was really proud of him the other day, because he didn't swing the bat good in Mesa [on Sunday], and every inning he was waiting for the pitcher after their [outing]. That shows us that he understands. His priorities are in line. But it is nice to see him swing the bat."

Up next: Carlos Santana is scheduled to make his first Cactus League start behind the plate Wednesday, when the Indians host the A's in a 4:05 p.m. ET tilt at Goodyear Ballpark. Up to this point this spring, Santana has worked exclusively as a third baseman. Hard-throwing Danny Salazar is scheduled to start and go four innings. Rotation candidate Carlos Carrasco is to log five innings in relief.

Only when you post. Swisher is the mvp leader of this whole team even if you do not understand as usual. Maybe he can change his name to Ramirez so you could.

Oh! I understand completely!

Maybe if Swisher changes his name to Ramirez, he might make better contact

When a guy is making 14 million a year and is the highest paid player on the team, I expect a little less leadership and a little more production.

For 14 million a year, I don't think a .246 batting average, 63 rbi's, 50 extra base hits, .341 OBP, .423 SLG, and .763 OPB quite cuts it.

In the "playoffs" last year he batted second in the lineup and was 0-4 with 2 strikeouts which basically summed up his whole season.

The same can be said of the second highest paid player on this team, Michael Bourn, clocking in at 12 million a year. Bourn had a whopping 33 extra base hits. Bourn's average was .263 with a .316 OBP, .360 SLG, and a .676 OPS. Bourn was also 0-4 with 2 strikeouts in that "Playoff" game out of the leadoff position (0-8, 4 K's).

Wonderful. Call me crazy but not quite what I expect from 26 million a year.

I was just thinking.........Sooooooo much was written and said about the leadership that Jason Giambi provided for the team last season. He rode us into the "playoffs" almost single handedly with his clubhouse presence. My idea, we just let Giambi be responsible for what he does best and let Swisher concentrate on hitting the baseball. We can have the best of both worlds.

joez wrote:I was just thinking.........Sooooooo much was written and said about the leadership that Jason Giambi provided for the team last season. He rode us into the "playoffs" almost single handedly with his clubhouse presence. My idea, we just let Giambi be responsible for what he does best and let Swisher concentrate on hitting the baseball. We can have the best of both worlds.

That's where the problem always starts.

For 14 million a year, I don't think a .246 batting average, 63 rbi's, 50 extra base hits, .341 OBP, .423 SLG, and .763 OPB quite cuts it.

This is one, injury filled, year. You can't make a great case on the one year.

If he does that for another year, then you have a gripe IMO.

He has no gripe but when has that stopped Joe Z ?

Swisher is the heart and soul of this team no matter how he performs. Worth every penny. Worth double for telling Lofton to take a hike.

Rusty!

You are more crazy than I thought

GM Chris Antonetti says Cleveland Indians made Justin Masterson "very' competitive offer
GM Chris Antonetti GM Chris Antonetti talks about the end of contract negotiations with Justin Masterson.

Paul Hoynes, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Paul Hoynes, Northeast Ohio Media Group


GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- GM Chris Antonetti said the Indians made a “competitive" offer to sign opening day starter Justin Masterson to a contract extension, but couldn’t reach common ground with the 6-6, 250-pound right-hander.

Negotiations officially broke off Thursday afternoon after the Indians talked with Randy Rowley, Masterson’s agent. Masterson, who has not allowed a run this spring, can be a free agent at the end of the season.

“I met with Justin this morning,” said Antonetti on Friday. “At this point we both agreed to table discussions on a multiyear contract and potentially revisit it down the road. But right now the focus will be on preparing for the season.”

The Indians open the season on March 31 against the A’s in Oakland. Masterson will take the mound for his third straight opening day start for the Tribe.

Masterson and the Indians talked about a variety of contract extensions, but as Antonetti said, “we couldn’t make all the pieces fit together.”

It’s believed Masterson gave the Indians two- and three-year proposals for an estimated $17 million a year. The Indians, in earlier talks with Masterson, offered deals of two or three years at $14 million a year.

They basically came back with the same proposal on Thursday. It was incorrectly reported Thursday that the Indians’ offer was an estimated $12 million to $13 million a year.

The two sides talked about some of the money being deferred and Masterson was willing to accept that.

Antonetti wasn’t specific about when negotiations might restart, but all indications point to talks not resuming until after the regular season. That’s a tough time to reopen talks with free agency so close at hand.

“We’ll always leave the door open,” he said. “We’ll never close any doors. It stems from out profound belief in Justin. He embodies everything we want our players to be. He’s a great teammate, a great person and an exceptional performer. There remains a desire on our side for him to be here long term and I think he’d like to be here long term.

“That’s a good common ground to start with. It’s just at this moment in time we were not able to align on the right contract for him.”

The six-year, $105 million deal Cincinnati gave Homer Bailey in February had a big influence on the negotiations between the Indians and Masterson. They were both eligible for free agency at the end of this season and were comparable in service time and performance.

“That’s one of the contract extensions in the market place,” said Antonetti. “We were very cognizant of that contact, but there are others. I feel we made an earnest attempt to get something done and offer Justin a contract that was fair, relative to the marketplace. But we never attach a negotiation to any one contract specifically.”

The Indians cited uncertain revenues for 2014 and future payroll obligations as some of the reasons they couldn’t meet Masterson’s contract proposal.

“It’s a consideration,” said Antonetti when asked about future payroll obligations. “The thing we want, and I know Justin wants, is to be part of a championship-caliber team. What we need to do is look at how we fairly compensate players and fit them into the construct of where our payroll will be moving forward.

“It’s not an obstacle, it’s a consideration. We made an earnest effort to get something done. I’ll stay away from the specifics of things, but we made a very competitive offer within the marketplace for contract extensions for starting pitchers.”

The Indians have about $50 million committed to contracts in 2015 along with several players, including Jason Kipnis, being eligible for arbitration.

Finally: Right-hander David Aardsma asked the Indians for his release after being told he would not make the club. The Indians granted it. ... Catcher Matt Treanor strained his left hamstring and will miss two to three weeks, which takes him out of the competition to make the 25-man roster.

Trying to figure out how the Cleveland Indians can keep Justin Masterson: Terry Pluto

Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer


GOODYEAR, Arizona -- Homer Bailey's contract. That's the problem for the Indians -- and Justin Masterson.

Bailey's contract with the Reds is as follows: $9 million, 2014; $10 million, 2015; $18 million, 2016; $19 million, 2017; $21 million, 2018; and $23 million, 2019.

It all adds up to $105 million over six years. That's right, the Reds guaranteed $105 million to a pitcher who:

• Was 11-12 with a 3.49 ERA last year;

• Has a 49-45 career record with a 4.25 ERA in the National League with no designated hitter; and

• Is pretty good and may improve -- but not likely to be an ace.

The contract issue

To Masterson's credit, his agent isn't asking for $105 million over six years. He wants a deal to average about the $17.5 million that is Bailey's average annual pay. The $17.5 million per year is a Big, BIG deal to both sides.

Here is what I've heard about the contract talks:

• Length is not a major issue. Both sides could work in a realistic three-year time frame.

• There were reports that the Tribe offered about $12 million annually for two or three years. I hear their offer averages about $14 million annually. One offer may have averaged $15 million. Not sure how that one was structured.

• In exchange for taking a shorter contract, Masterson's agent wants it to average the $17.5 million given Bailey.

Right now, it sounds like both sides are exhausted and a bit frustrated. Contract talks have been "tabled," in the words of General Manager Chris Antonetti, who left open the possibility of talking again "down the road."

But generally, if a player isn't signed by the end of spring training as he heads into his free agent year -- he doesn't sign until first checking the open market.

Odds are that will happen with Masterson.

Other factors

Masterson's agent could argue his client is a superior pitcher to Bailey. Last season, Masterson was 14-10 with a 3.45 in the American League, a tougher place to pitch than the National League because of the DH.

Bailey is 27, Masterson is 28. Over the last three years, here's how they have pitched:

Masterson: 37-35, 3.86.

Bailey: 33-29, 3.79.

The Indians maintain that Bailey's contract should not drive the market.

Masterson is the Tribe's union representative and he is on the union's executive council. There is pressure to make the best deal possible because that's how players continue to climb the salary ladder. One big contract leads to another, and another.

That's why the annual amount is so important. Masterson's agent believes that in exchange for sacrificing the extra three years that Bailey received, his client should be paid $17.5 million per season.

The last time the Tribe gave a big extension to a pitcher was to Jake Westbrook -- $33 million over three years. He had elbow surgery and won only seven games in that span before being traded late in the 2010 season to the Cardinals.

An idea

Right now, the Tribe is losing the public relations war. Once again, they look cheap, although one offer in the $45 million range is not exactly a few pennies and some old baseball cards of Eddie Leon and Alex Cole. So let's be fair and cut out the name-calling.

Yes, they also need Masterson, who is a durable right-handed starter.

Injuries are always a risk, especially with pitchers. The Indians are worried about having another Westbrook situation. It would be dumb to offer a pitcher at this stage of his career more than three years at big dollars.

I'm not sure how this can be worked out if $17.5 million remains the magic number. I'd come back with a three-year, $45 million deal, about $15 million annually. There also can be some performances bonuses if he has a monster year that could take the salary up to $17 million.

That's less than the $52.5 over three years that the Homer Bailey deal of $17.5 million annually dictates. But does the Bailey contract have to rule? Right now, Nick Swisher's average salary is $14 million. Masterson would become the highest-paid player on the team.

Do I think the Indians will make that offer? Possibly.

Would Masterson's agent take it? Probably not. At least not as long as Homer Bailey sets the market.

Here is the Masterson delema. He is not a #1 but certainly a solid 2/3 guy. He is worth every penny of $17M/yr in this market especially on a 2/3 yr deal. BUT he is signed this year for less than $10M. He is not willing to do an extension to that contract he wants a new contract. So replace 1 yr at $10M with 2 at $34M makes year 2 $24M way too much. Replace 1 yr at 10M with 3 yrs at 51M and yrs 2/3 cost $20M+ still way too much. Let him pitch to the All Star break and see where we are and if we can move Caberera and or Bourn. If so offer him a 3 yr deal at 51M. If not trade him and move on...

How walking away from Masterson could be reasonable

Cleveland's perspective not that outlandish, though the best-case is still getting a deal done

By Jim Piascik

March 21, 2014

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So how on Earth could Cleveland not finish negotiations with current #1 starter Justin Masterson and keep him long-term?

That is the question on everyone's mind this morning after news broke Thursday night that extension talks between Masterson and the team are over. The typical ranting and raving over the cheap Dolans and the stupid front office and other typical complaints followed.

But what if Cleveland is making a reasonable decision?

First, let's go over what we know (it is also important to note that each of these offers would be tacked on top of Masterson's $9.7 million contract he already signed for 2014).

Paul Hoynes of The Plain Dealer reported Thursday night that Masterson's side offered a two-year contract for $35 million and a three-year contract for roughly $51 million. Both of these come out to about $17 million per season.

Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reported that Cleveland's counter was a two-year deal with a club option. That offer carried around a $14 million per season salary.

On one hand, the difference between Masterson's two-year, $35 million contract and Cleveland's two-year, $28 million contract does not seem like much; split the difference, call it two years, $31.5 million, and sign on the dotted line. But in reality, these contracts are much farther apart.

The fact that Masterson would even offer a two-year extension seems crazy considering the sum Cincinnati Reds right-hander Homer Bailey just signed for. After an offseason where Bailey and Masterson were lumped together as similar pitchers approaching free agency following 2014, Bailey signed a six-year, $105 million contract (one of those years is 2014, so for comparing to these Masterson extension figures, Bailey signed a five-year, $96 million contract). That contract seemed to put Masterson out of Cleveland's price range, at least until his agents proposed a shorter, cheaper extension during spring training.

When comparing Masterson and Bailey, it is clear that both do not have the longest track records of success, yet both have performed at a high level recently.
Masterson is slightly better for his career, but Bailey has youth on his side (Bailey turns 28 years old in May while Masterson turns 29 years old on Saturday). Overall the difference is essentially negligible, putting Masterson in line for at least a similar contract to the one Bailey signed.

In theory.

Dave Cameron at Fangraphs had the same question as everyone: if Masterson is willing to take so much less than the Bailey extension, how could Cleveland not pounce?

His take? Cincinnati just overpaid for Bailey, skewing our perceptions of the market.

According to Cameron's analysis, Masterson was offering Cleveland a fair market deal, not some kind of massive bargain; just because Cincinnati broke the market for Bailey does not mean Cleveland must do the same.

Regarding Masterson, Cameron writes

"Even if Masterson simply agreed to sign for 3/$45M with no option, it’s not clear that this is a large enough discount for a mid-revenue team like the Indians to take the risk of doing the deal a year ahead of time. After all, the Indians aren’t a team that can afford to buy a ton of market priced wins, and so to take on the risk of his 2014 health and performance, they should get a real discount over what Masterson would be expected to get as a free agent."

Basically, Masterson's side offered a contract that is close to what is considered market value in the aftermath of Bailey's big payday. Considering Masterson is a union rep and has the responsibility not only to himself with his contract but to future players, it should come as no surprise that the right-hander was not offering some gigantic bargain for the team.

But with Bailey diving into a pool of money in mind, the deal looked like a hometown discount and something Cleveland should jump at.

Now, even at two years, $35 million -- or something around that range -- I do think a deal could be worth doing. It is an expensive sum, but on a shorter-term deal, it has the potential to be worth it for Cleveland. It is a little surprising the two sides cannot find some sort of middle ground when they are (a) relatively close and (b) in agreement that the Bailey contract is not a real goal.

But the way information came out about Masterson's "benevolence" with the offer, Cleveland was quickly painted into a corner. Take the non-bargain deal and have a 15-20 percent chunk of the payroll tied up with Masterson or turn down the deal and face another round of criticism for being "cheap." This quickly turned into a no-win situation for Cleveland.

Did frustration at Masterson's camp for putting them in this position influence the negotiations? I have no inside information, but it is not much of a leap to see some friction there.

Maybe by publicly breaking off talks the two sides can negotiate out of the limelight and come to some agreement.

Maybe Cleveland has long-term concerns about Masterson and just wants to be done with the right-hander after 2014 no matter what.

But either way, seeing the extension negotiations break off and not end up being fruitful is not that big of a surprise. A disappointment on some level, yes. But a surprise? Not at all.

If you want to follow Jim on Twitter, he’s @JimPiascik. If you want to e-mail him, you can do so at jpiasci1@kent.edu

In conversion to third base, Indians’ Carlos Santana appreciates support from Asdrubal Cabrera

By Marla Ridenour

Beacon Journal sports columnist

GOODYEAR, Ariz.:

When Indians third baseman Carlos Santana speared a line drive against the Arizona Diamondbacks on Saturday, shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera looked at Santana, pointed to his own eyes with two fingers, then pointed back to Santana.

The signal seemed like a sign of approval, Cabrera acknowledging a good play by his teammate on the left side of the infield who is attempting a rare position change.

That was not Cabrera’s message at all, Santana said Tuesday.

“He said something funny, something to try to make me happy and make sure I enjoy this time with the game,” Santana said.

Perhaps Santana wanted to keep their communication private. On the infield dirt, the Spanish chatter between the Venezuelan Cabrera, 28, and the Dominican-born Santana, 27, is audible but indecipherable without a translator.

Since Santana began his attempted conversion from catcher to third baseman when full-squad spring-training workouts began last month, Santana has found an extra supporter. Along with the instruction he receives from infield coach Mike Sarbaugh and the encouragement he gets from manager Terry Francona, Cabrera seems to be going out of his way during their time on the diamond to help Santana succeed.

“He’s helped me a lot. He’s confident, he has more experience in the infield, he’s way different,” Santana said Tuesday of Cabrera, a six-year veteran. “We have a good relationship now about everything.”

Presumably Santana meant Cabrera is more confident than he is. Told in the offseason that Yan Gomes was going to be the starting catcher, Santana volunteered to try to play third base, a position he hasn’t held since he was in the Los Angeles Dodgers’ farm system. Santana played exclusively at third base until the past few days, when he twice caught on the side at the team’s training complex. On Wednesday, he made his spring debut as catcher against the Oakland A’s at Goodyear Ballpark. His defensive performance was uneventful.

Cabrera has publicly supported Santana all month. In a March 8 game against the San Diego Padres, Santana retired a batter on a groundout. When the inning ended, Cabrera put his arm around Santana’s shoulder as they headed to the dugout.

Santana said he appreciated the gesture.

“I try to make him feel comfortable about that. I try to enjoy the time with my teammate,” Santana said, knowing Cabrera can be a reserved person.

“I know it’s got to be hard for him changing to another position,” Cabrera said. “That’s why I’m here. I’m here to help my guys to try to do their best.

“When we practice, if he takes a ground ball, maybe I’ll say something to him. We’ve got an infield coach. I’m not a coach, but I just try to help him a little bit. I don’t want to put too many things in his mind.”

Francona doesn’t think the developing kinship or even the public display of it is unusual.

“That’s natural,” Francona said last week. “I do agree Cabby’s a good teammate. I’m probably not reading into it as much. Carlos is pretty confident. Guys do that kind of stuff all the time. I like it, but it’s not out of the norm.”

Santana said Cabrera has taught him a lot about game situations, throwing and “some little things.”

Asked the best thing Cabrera has said, Santana said, “Everything is positive. He said, ‘Let it come to you and just make it happen.’ ”

With 11 days left until Opening Day on March 31 in Oakland, Santana said he feels good about how the conversion is going.

“Right now, I feel comfortable and I’m happy and I’m playing very well,” he said. “I have to do [it]. Because if I don’t, I don’t play somewhere.”

That’s not really the case. If the experiment fails and Lonnie Chisenhall wins the third-base job, Santana will be on the 25-man roster as the designated hitter. But either he doesn’t consider that a real job or he wants to be more involved. Catcher is a leadership position requiring even more.

“Honestly, I think if he had his choice, he’d play third base every day,” Francona said. “He doesn’t want to be a full-time DH. I understand that.”

Until the decision is made on what position is best for Santana and the Tribe, Cabrera will attempt to assist him, even though he said he’s not the type to offer too much unless asked.

“When you try to do something and you’re not doing well, you get mad sometimes,” Cabrera said. “I wait for him to seek me out and tell him what I can to help.”

No matter what happens, Cabrera said he is proud of Santana.

“That’s got to be hard, trying a position you’ve never played before,” Cabrera said. “I don’t think I could do that.”

Cant wait to see the 17 year old Tommy John recipient who can throw the baseball through a wall that we get for Masterson.

Did frustration at Masterson's camp for putting them in this position influence the negotiations? I have no inside information, but it is not much of a leap to see some friction there.

Maybe by publicly breaking off talks the two sides can negotiate out of the limelight and come to some agreement.

Yes, I do agree that Masterson's camp making public those figures did put pressure on the team. If you look at the Ubaldo and Ervin Santana situations, Masterson is asking more than those guys got annually.

Free agency, with that first round pick attached, is not what it used to be.

Ubaldo got $15 per year for 4 years (or was it $12.5 per?), even AS a free agent. Santana ended up having to settle for ONE year at $14 million.