Cleveland Sports Forum

NBA acknowledged 2 bad calls during the final couple minutes of the Clippers game which cost the Cavs the game. But they don't alter the results

Last night vs Sacramento a failure to finish cost the Cavs legitimately. Outscored something like 10-3 over the final few minutes

civ ollilavad wrote:NBA acknowledged 2 bad calls during the final couple minutes of the Clippers game which cost the Cavs the game. But they don't alter the results

Last night vs Sacramento a failure to finish cost the Cavs legitimately. Outscored something like 10-3 over the final few minutes

As a former ref I don't understand why players, coaches make mistakes all game long but refs are absolutely not allowed to. Last I checked ALL humans make mistakes.

So ref mistakes are part of the game. Sometimes you benefit, sometimes not.

BTW basketball due to the nature of it's ever moving and always contact nature is the hardest to call for sure. There is so much of "is there enough contact to call" since there is always contact!

Donovan Mitchell Unplugged: On early Cavs success, leaving Jazz and Gobert, plus how close he was to joining Knicks
Sam Amick
Nov 11, 2022


Donovan Mitchell is not happy, but he is hungry.

Quite literally.

It’s late Wednesday night at the Golden 1 Center in Sacramento, where his new Cleveland Cavaliers team, which spent the first three weeks of the season devouring the competition, and which was already upset about a loss to the Clippers two nights before, is downright hangry after falling to the Kings. But as Mitchell fills his paper plate with postgame sustenance inside an otherwise-empty visitors’ locker room, then makes the long walk with his to-go meal through the tunnel and out toward the team bus, it doesn’t take him long to broaden the scope of his view and start appreciating the big picture again.

All things considered, this Cavs experience that he never saw coming before the Sept. 1 trade from Utah is off to about as sensational a start as he could have imagined. Not only are they 8-3 heading into Friday’s game at Golden State, but also the 26-year-old Mitchell is — by his own admission — playing the best basketball of his life.

The three-time All-Star is on a career-high pace in scoring (31.9 points per game; third in the league), field-goal percentage (51.4 percent), 3-point percentage (44.8), true shooting percentage (61.1) and assists (5.8). In terms of the Cavs collective, they are second in defensive rating so far, third in offensive rating and second in net rating (8.9, just behind Phoenix’s 9.1).

Even with the back-to-back losses, it’s quite clear that the ceiling on this Cavs’ group is exceptionally high. And with his old Jazz running mate Rudy Gobert coming to Cleveland with his Minnesota Timberwolves on Sunday for their first reunion meeting, it’s as good a reminder as any that there’s no sense in dwelling on the past.

“We can really build something special,” said Mitchell, the New York native who was widely expected to be traded to the Knicks before the Cavs deal went down. “And that’s really what I’m hoping for.”

Editor’s Note: The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity. (Author’s notes are in italics.)

Why has this team fit you so well? You’ve said yourself that you’re playing the best ball of your career.

I look at who I’ve been in my career — a guy who could score the ball. (But) I’m asserting myself on a different level defensively. Having another dominant guard (in Darius Garland) who can get you 30 (points on any given night) and also having ‘Vert (Caris LeVert), who can do the same, it relieves that pressure a little bit and allows you to be more engaged defensively, to be there and have the energy. And then on top of that, my coaches (head coach J.B. Bickerstaff and his staff) and my teammates allow me to just go, to be myself — whatever that means.

It’s been scoring for the past few games, but it’s passing, it’s leading. I’m being myself, and honestly I have (former Jazz teammates) Ricky Rubio and Mike Conley to thank for that. Joe Ingles. They’ve taught me different things. So being able to come here in a group where we all have the same intentions (has been good). Last year, I didn’t play my best basketball. I had the worst playoff series of my career. So that stings — being out early. Then you look here, and they were done a week and a half before I was, so they have that same feeling.

In Utah’s six-game, first-round series loss to Dallas, Mitchell averaged 25.5 points (39.8 percent shooting overall, 20.8 percent from 3), 5.7 assists and 4.3 rebounds. It was the third time in his five playoff appearances with the Jazz that they were eliminated in the first round.

The Cavs, meanwhile, started the season 35-21 before being battered by injuries that sparked a downturn (279 games missed in all due to injuries and illness). They finished 44-38, then lost both games of the play-in tournament (against Brooklyn and Atlanta).

They have that same hunger coming into the season, so our interests align. And our timeline, if you look at the group we have, we’re all around the same age. We’re all young. We’re all trying to prove something. And I think that’s the biggest thing.

A quick note for contractual context: While Mitchell is under contract through the 2024-25 season (he has a player option in 2025-26), his 22-year-old backcourt mate and fellow All-Star, Garland, is signed through 2027-28. Their fabulous frontcourt is in good contractual standing as well.

Big man Jarrett Allen, who is 24, is signed through 2025-2026, while 21-year-old Evan Mobley is on his rookie deal through next season (he’s eligible for an extension this summer). Fourth-year forward Dean Wade, who has become a pivotal part of their defense, is signed through 2024-25.

In terms of the other key rotation players, veterans LeVert and Kevin Love are free agents this summer. Sixth-year small forward Cedi Osman is signed through next season, though his 2023-24 salary is not guaranteed. Veteran point guard Rubio, who continues to rehab from his ACL tear in late December and who is close with Mitchell from their time together in Utah, is signed through 2024-25.

So how does this current view of this group reconcile with the moment you heard about the deal? You were on the golf course when you found out, right? What was the instant reaction in your mind when you’re breaking down the basketball fit?

That’s why I said that I wanted to know who was in the trade.

Who were you worried that you were gonna lose?

Darius and (Mobley), JA (Jarrett Allen) — those were the three guys. And I didn’t know the rest of our roster, but Darius and Evan for sure, because I knew what was being asked (of the Jazz in trade talks) from New York.

What all was being asked by New York?

I was told it was RJ (Barrett) and hella (draft) picks. That’s what I heard. And I thought that was happening. I thought that was it. I’m there (on the East Coast) all offseason. I’m there in the summer. So that’s why I thought, “All right, this is gonna be a long haul in Cleveland (if they gave up Garland, Mobley and/or Allen in the deal).” But when I found out those guys were (not in the deal), it was like, “All right, we can really do something. Like, we really could do something.” Nothing to slight the guys that were involved in the deal going to Utah. But for me, it was just like, “We have the talent.” I said it at the press conference: Our talent is scary, but we’ve got to go out there and do it.

So one other thing I have not had clarity on is that if you go back to last year, and we had reported that, essentially, if the Jazz were going to move you that you were focused on Brooklyn, New York and Miami.

I never said that. I don’t know where that came from. I didn’t say that. I didn’t say a lot.

Well I’m not even necessarily going down memory lane too much. But more so it’s this: Was Cleveland on your radar at all at any point before the deal went down?

Anything you heard in the news is what I heard. Like, when I said that I heard Cleveland was in there for a second and took their name out, that’s what I thought. So I didn’t think about it. It wasn’t one that was on my radar. I just said, “Look, I’m just gonna play wherever I’m at.” If it came back to training camp in Utah, I’d be ready for that. I took the summer to say, “Look, I played like s— in the playoffs. I wasn’t my best self, and I want to be the best me I could be for wherever the hell I’m at. Wherever the hell I’m at — New York, Brooklyn, Miami, Toronto, OKC, Utah.”

Did you want a change of pace?

I felt it was coming, you know? So I embraced it and I started to accept it. I mean, yeah. After Rudy got traded, it was like, “Okay, this is the direction we’re going, like, why not?”

(The Jazz) tried to waffle at that time, and said publicly that they had no intent to move Donovan but they wouldn’t call you untouchable.

Well, I didn’t (hear that). I didn’t speak to anybody for a while. For a long time, actually. So I really had no idea what the f— was going on.

How come? Where was your head at?

I don’t know. I just kind of — like I said, I took this summer (to himself) and I’m really glad I did. I took this summer to really just worry about my damn self, and be the best (I could be). And I’m reaping the benefits of it now. That really was the biggest thing for me. Like, I couldn’t care less what happens. But I’m gonna be better. I took that upon myself.

A control-what-you-can-control type thing?

Exactly. And mentally, it was really freeing to do that and it put me in a position where I’m locked in on a certain goal. But I didn’t really speak. I didn’t speak on social media. I didn’t speak to people. I didn’t go to summer league (in Las Vegas). I wasn’t with any of that. I was just like, “Cool, whatever happens happens. You guys (in the Jazz organization) got it.”And I’m thankful I’m here (now) and I’m ready to go.

I know it’s really early, and I know you’ve gotta jump. But when you got dealt, one of the first questions was your contract and your future with this group. We didn’t see Cleveland coming, so a lot of folks started assuming, “Oh, he’s gonna bounce in a few years.” Then you get here, and you see how good it could be, what’s your level of enthusiasm about the long-view?

Yeah, I’m not interested in any of the down-the-road (discussion). But like I said, we have a lot of potential with this group. We have a lot of guys that can really get going. We can really build something special. And that’s really what I’m hoping for. I can’t control what our result is come June, May, our playoff success, our future success. But right now we’ve got a lot of great pieces. And as far as two or three years, I can’t sit here and give you anything. That’s the one thing from this summer that I’m very happy about is I just said, “F— what happens. F— tomorrow. F— the next day.” How can I be — excuse my language, by the way — but how can I just be the best Donovan today and let the rest handle itself? I mean, I’ve got stuff to prove myself. I’ve got to continue to be better.

Well, you’ve been doing that here so far. Is this sustainable, you think, individually? This is MVP-caliber stuff.

I think so. I think so. I believe in myself. I’m confident in myself. I always have been. But at the end of the day, I’ve had 30 (points) the past two games and we haven’t won. So it doesn’t mean s—. That’s where I’m at. Yeah, (he) had 38 but we lost to the Kings. We can’t lose to Golden State. That’s just my mindset throughout the year. And if we win, everything else takes care of itself for the rest of it. I feel I’m one of the best players in this league, and we have two of the best players on the defensive end in this league and two guys who can be All-Defensive team, and Darius Garland is an All-Star guy. We have so many pieces, excluding just myself, that if we just take care of what we’ve got to take care of, everything else will just fall in line.

Last one for you: You’re gonna see Rudy on Sunday. How do you want people to remember that chapter?

You know, we gave Utah a lot of special moments. But you know, we didn’t get the job done. Him and I have a great relationship, despite what people may feel. On the court, it didn’t work. I don’t hate Rudy. He doesn’t hate me. It was just one of those things where it just didn’t work out, and I feel like we live in a world where everybody’s gotta hate each other and there’s gotta be some negative thing and that’s just not the case. When I see him on Sunday, I’m gonna give him a hug and smile and laugh. And when we’re on the court, it’s time to go at it. That’s really what it is.

but refs are absolutely not allowed to. Last I checked ALL humans make mistakes.

Mistakes will be made. basketball must be the hardest sport to ref, constant movement. They are excused.

they're having a bit of a last 4 minute problem

And today no Donovan Mitchell.

no Mitchell no Allen no Wade. Pretty listless for the first 40 minutes. Then Garland went nuts and finished with 51 points and nearly pulled out a huge comeback. We have sort of forgotten about his scoring ability with Mitchell around

From junkyard dogs to ‘fat cats’: How Cavaliers lost their way and why J.B. Bickerstaff is hinting at lineup changes
Updated: Nov. 17, 2022, 8:50 a.m.|Published: Nov. 17, 2022, 3:15 a.m.


By Chris Fedor, cleveland.com

MILWAUKEE -- For more than 30 minutes after the final buzzer sounded on a fifth straight loss, Cleveland Cavaliers coach J.B. Bickerstaff addressed the team inside the visitor’s locker room at Fiserv Forum.

It was time for a lengthy heart-to-heart. This postgame conversation lasted much longer than usual, causing the team buses to depart downtown Milwaukee nearly an hour later than scheduled.

Bickerstaff spoke. Players did too. It wasn’t so much about sending a message. No rah-rah speeches. Just a necessary, solutions-oriented chat amongst a suddenly sinking group that had raced out to an 8-1 start before reality slapped back.


What will it take to snap out of this funk? Where do the Cavs go from here? How did things unravel so quickly? Why have their lost their way?

“We’ve got kind of a fat cat mentality,” Bickerstaff said following the discouraging 113-98 loss to the short-handed Milwaukee Bucks who were missing at least five rotation players on Wednesday night. “We went out and won eight games in a row. Everyone was giving us love and praising us. We got really comfortable. We are the team that won those eight games though. We are a really good basketball team. This is about maturation and growth from a team as a whole.

“Not one guy is going to do it. Not two guys are going to do it. Just understanding the difference between being the guy who is chasing and the guy who is being chased and how hard it is to win in the NBA. You have to show up every single night. We’re still learning that unfortunately. It’s all the same mentality, the mentality of the fat cat who is comfortable and complacent. You cannot succeed in this league playing this way.”


Bickerstaff’s dad, Bernie, was a long-time NBA coach who now works in Cleveland’s front office. One thing he taught his son long ago was about how this ruthless league can -- and will -- humble anyone, even the best.

The Cavs, who looked like contenders just two weeks ago, are getting a taste of that right now.

“As soon as you get too big for your britches, no matter who you are, the NBA has a way of doing that,” Bickerstaff said. “Hopefully this has been enough, and we will make the decision to do what’s right by each other.”

Bickerstaff first sensed this troubling mentality shift during the team’s West Coast road trip that started with back-to-back blowouts against the hapless Pistons and Lakers and finished with a trio of fourth-quarter meltdowns.

He noticed slippage on the defensive end, giving up at least 60 first-half points to the Lakers, Clippers and then Kings before cranking up the intensity -- albeit in a loss -- against the Golden State Warriors. He believes the team’s suddenly explosive offense gave players a sense of impudence that they didn’t have to put forth the same effort on defense.

Big mistake.

“We got away from being who we are,” Bickerstaff said. “If you want to win and win in this league at the level we hope to, you can’t do it if you don’t guard. Defense comes down to the effort you’re willing to put in. The second effort. The third effort. The fourth effort. Right now, we don’t have enough guys putting in that second, third and fourth effort.”


During the first nine games, which included an eight-game winning streak, the Cavs smothered opponents, ranking second in defensive rating, allowing just 102.9 points per 100 possessions. Opponents shot 44.4% from the field (No. 6 in the NBA) and 33.7% from 3-point range (No. 10).

Before leaving for Milwaukee, the Cavs dug into their ghastly recent metrics and discussed potential corrections. The belief was they were primed to turn the corner.

Not so much. It was more of the same. Defensive lethargy. Point-of-attack breakdowns. Over-helping. Short closeouts. Missed assignments. Communication breakdowns. There was even some finger-pointing, eye-rolling and palm-raising as various Bucks strolled through the lane undeterred or camped out at the 3-point line without a defender in sight.



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Even in a matchup where perennial MVP candidate Giannis Antetokounmpo scored a season-low 16 points (in large part because of Cleveland’s defensive strategy to get the ball out of his hands while building a wall around the paint), the Cavs still weren’t able to hold up on the defensive end.

Brook Lopez took advantage of the extra attention on Giannis, splashing seven 3s and finishing with 29 points, his highest-scoring game since the Orlando Bubble in 2020. The Bucks also got 45 bench points (compared to just 20 for the Cavs) despite missing Khris Middleton, Jrue Holiday, Grayson Allen, Pat Connaughton and Wesley Matthews.


By the end of the night, the Cavs -- with the league’s worst defensive rating over the last five games -- had another awful showing, letting the Bucks shoot 41 of 68 (47.7%) from the field and 16 of 39 (41%) from 3-point range. Milwaukee, which scored 61 points in the first half, finished with 15 fastbreak points and 21 second-chance points.

Out-toughed. Out-worked. Out-played.

“We’re not playing winning basketball right now. It’s that simple,” Bickerstaff said. “We have a formula in place that allows us and will allow us to be successful. Holding each other to that is what we have to do. Right now, we are not. It’s my responsibility to search and find the guys that are most willing to play the way we want to play, that will help us be successful. That’s what we will do. Does this shake the way I feel about our team? No. I love all these dudes the same. But it’s our responsibility to do what’s best by the team and find the guys that are going to play the way we need to play.”


In other words, lineup changes could be coming.

Only this time, not simply prompted by injury, as the Cavs were without defensive linchpin Jarrett Allen for the second straight game and do-it-all forward Dean Wade for a third in a row.

Allen’s loss can’t be understated. He would’ve been the best Antetokounmpo deterrent. Plus, the team’s defensive success is, in large part, predicated on having two elite rim protectors -- Allen and second-year standout Evan Mobley -- behind a pair of undersized guards. Without Allen, they are reduced to one backline eraser, causing an alteration of strategy and game planning.




“Scoring is going to be whatever, that’s not really the concern, it’s really just our defense,” Cavs star Donovan Mitchell said after finishing with 23 points. “Yeah, we missed J.A., but the one thing that championship teams -- which we aspire to be -- when guys are out everybody continues to step up. You saw that tonight. They had four, five guys out and guys continued to step up. We’ve got a ways to go and it’s nothing to overreact to. It sucks to have to learn through this but sometimes you have to go through it and persevere and see what it takes day to day. We’ve done it. We’ve shown we can do it.”

Caris LeVert, praised for his defense during the team’s rollicking 8-1 start, only played 20 minutes Wednesday night. He finished with two points, missing four of his five shot attempts.

Cedi Osman logged a measly 13 minutes. Kevin Love played 20.

If Bickerstaff is serious about rediscovering a lost identity, guys considered lesser defenders could be short-term casualties while defense-first swingmen Isaac Okoro and Lamar Stevens earn more run.


“We just need to find it again,” Stevens said. “Get back to what we were doing. It comes down to holding everybody accountable to being at that level and doing what we’ve always done. We’re a defense-first team. We need to find that hunger and grit. ... Dudes can step up. There are things dudes in this locker room can do better. I think that’s just the reality of it, and I think we all have a strong enough relationship where I know I can go to my teammates and tell them, ‘You need to do this better.’ They can come to me and tell me I have to do something better. It’s not always the good things. We have a great group of guys. I think accountability can be a good thing.”

Bickerstaff and his assistants will spend the next few days working through any possible lineup tweaks. Everything is on the table right now. The Cavs have reached an early-season crossroads.




“It’s my responsibility to fix it,” Bickerstaff said. “And I will. I’m certain of that. We will be better for this time. We have a lot of season left to be played. We will get it right. This is a valuable lesson for us.”

As Mitchell reiterated after the game, it’s a lot tougher to stomach learning through losses. These kinds of skids aren’t fun -- and the locker-room mood matched that.


All-Star point guard Darius Garland, typically playful and jovial, asked if he could step outside for a few minutes, letting his emotions simmer before meeting with reporters. By the time he collected his thoughts, the locker room was closed for the night. When asked by cleveland.com to chat in the hallway instead, Garland politely declined before slowly strolling to the bus.

As Bickerstaff and other players mentioned, the 15-point loss just becomes the latest lesson. Even if harsh, sometimes failure can be a great teacher.

“We know what we have to do. We just have to go do it,” Mitchell said. “I can sit here and tell you all these different things, but we have to go out and execute. These five games don’t emulate who we are and who we’ve been. It’s early. There’s going to be trails and tribulations. There’s going to be positive and negatives. Right now, we’re in a negative spot. We need to understand that every night we’re going to have to bring it. We haven’t. It doesn’t look great. It doesn’t feel great. We just have to go out and do it. We are on radars. We haven’t been on radars. It’s a learning experience.

“We won eight in a row. That’s great. We lost five in a row. OK, cool, let’s get back to the drawing board and get to it. We’ve done it, we’ve shown we can do it. Looks great, looks phenomenal. We just have to go out there and do it. It’s a long season. This is nothing to sit here, and the sky is falling and whatever ... It’s November, we’ve played a bunch of good teams.”


Part of the bubbling frustration stems from glimpses of excellence. Eight wins in a row. Two signature victories over the reigning Eastern Conference champion Celtics. Forty-three minutes of dominance on the road versus the Clippers. Forty-six minutes of quality hoops at Golden State. Wednesday’s sparkling start in which the Cavs built an early 10-point advantage and led for 19 of the first 24 minutes.

But in what has become a microcosm of their season, that fast start was unsustainable.

“These low moments are going to help us and really show us who we are,” Stevens said. “I think it’s part of being in the NBA and it’s part of life. There are ups and downs and you can either let those break you or they will make you. I think they are going to make us. We’re too together, too talented. We have a great coach in J.B. We’re going to figure it out.”

Earlier this month, when things were going well and the mostly forgotten franchise was rocketing into the national spotlight, the Cavs were gaining notoriety for their culture, camaraderie and togetherness. The coveted Junkyard Dog award was a symbol of that -- a gold chain handed out to the scrappiest player following every win. It was a tradition introduced last February when eyeballs weren’t fixated on Cleveland, as players posed for photos and the spoils were proudly draped around their necks.


That award is a reflection of an underdog mentality that helped fuel a 44-win renaissance. It’s a mentality that caused them to soar to the top of the East in the first few weeks.

But it’s been missing since the team flew across the country. They’ve gone from junkyard dogs to fat cats -- an undesirable transformation that’s led to a five-game losing streak and Wednesday’s candid postgame meeting.

Can they find their way back once again?

“I believe in those guys in that locker room and that hasn’t wavered,” Bickerstaff said. “History and experience tells you that building good teams doesn’t come without difficulties. What we’re going through now is what you see early in teams that are building, that are a work in progress. That’s what we are. Let’s be honest with ourselves here. Do we believe there is a good team in that locker room? Hell yeah. Do we believe we have elite individual talent? Hell yeah. But building a team takes more than that. It takes time. It takes experiences together.




“My belief in this group has not wavered and never will.”

Cavs were without defensive linchpin Jarrett Allen for the second straight game and do-it-all forward Dean Wade for a third in a row.

Of course they need to win with whoever's available, but those 2 can't be fully replaced on the defensive end.

Wow ! This team is weak minded ! Up by 10 with less than 2 minutes and have to go into overtime at home with one of the weakest teams in the NBA without their star player. (Ball)

Garland says we thought the game was over !

EVen worse: up 10 with 54 seconds to go against weak team without its best player. That was awful performance. why can'tthey finish games? They need a top closer like the Guardians have

Cavs managed 3 turnovers in that span. For the night Garland and Mitchell totaled 14
Too bad they wound up with the W, be better lesson if they had another late loss on their tab

Sharing the ball

Donovan Mitchell (left) and Darius Garland. (Ken Blaze / USA Today)
The Cavs have some issues to sort through, such as who’s the best fit to start on the wing and how to divide the ball between Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell, but ultimately they’re going to be fine.

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After Garland scuffled a bit sharing the ball with Mitchell early in their time together, the Cavs seem to have quietly defined the roles. Garland is becoming the clear point guard and will initiate when the two are on the floor together after made baskets by the opposing team. Mitchell has free reign to push the tempo and get the ball up the floor when the Cavs are running in transition following a miss.

The plan became evident during the loss at Milwaukee and coach J.B. Bickerstaff acknowledged it before Friday’s win over the Hornets.

“That’s somewhere where we’re growing,” Bickerstaff said. “Someone has to have the ball to start initiating the offense. … On the makes, Darius has the ball in his hands. On misses, whoever’s the nearest guy is gonna get the ball and put it in their hands. What we’re trying to avoid is, both guys coming back wanting the ball, now our offense kind of stalls out by the time you get across half court.”

The Cavs are confident Garland and Mitchell will figure it out, but it’s worth noting Garland struggled playing alongside another ball-dominant guard in Collin Sexton. Garland flourished into an All-Star last season when Sexton was injured and the ball was predominantly in his hands. Mitchell is a better player than Sexton and can do more things for the offense, but giving the ball primarily to Garland is the best way to get the most out of both players.

Figuring out the wing situation is a bit more complicated. Caris LeVert has been inconsistent and his offense isn’t needed with the starting unit. Isaac Okoro should be an ideal fit, but he seems terrified to shoot and tries to get off the ball as soon as it finds him. Lamar Stevens is the stopgap solution for now and is a gritty defender who can guard multiple spots.

The long-term solution might eventually be Dean Wade, whose size would allow Bickerstaff to return to the three-bigs lineup that was so successful last season. Wade also is the best shooter of the three. I’d expect Wade to get some starts once the infection in his knee clears.

Love is out with a broken finger. Bench has been incredibly unproductive even with Kevin in the game. Now it will be more challenged.

Got a feeling this team will not greatly improve until Rubio is ready to play again.

did ok yesterday; lead was too big to blow