Cleveland Sports Forum

August 8th, 2012.

Today is the 38th anniversary of the resignation announcement of President Richard Nixon.

Jean-Claude Duvalier of Haiti and Francisco Franco of Spain were both "Presidents for Life."


And today, Mark Shapiro is inexplicably STILL President of The Cleveland Indians.


(Dolan must have done something that Shapiro has pics of)


Does anyone in Cleveland or Cleveland Indian Fandom seriously have any confidence that Mark Shapiro can put together a WINNING team?


(Rusty notes that Mark can sell enough hot dogs and sign enough scrubs to make a profit)

To our Otis (Andy Griffith). Keep drinking.

Oh I dunno. I've read a couple times that there was a long losing streak in 2009 or some such, but I'd totally forgotten about it. I suspect that in a year or two I will have forgotten this one as well. I do recall that in 1979 or so there was a really long winning streak right after the, um, I think it was the Torborg/Garcia managerial transition, and I think there may have been something similar a couple years previously when Torborg took over (that was a few months before I started paying any attention to the Indians).

So i can conclude from this that (a) sure, let's try firing Acta, what the hey, and (b) I can remember stuff from a long time ago but not from last week.

Good possibility that Sandy Alomar Jr will interview for a few managerial openings this off season.

Would you let Sandy go or would you rather keep Acta ?

rusty2 wrote:Good possibility that Sandy Alomar Jr will interview for a few managerial openings this off season.

Would you let Sandy go or would you rather keep Acta ?

The team seems to have quit on Acta, but the identity of the manager is pretty much immaterial. We have three guys who started the season in AAA in our current rotation. The Indians are what they are.

The rot begins way above the managerial level. (See: Charlie Manuel and his World Series ring)

Even given all the miserable baseball the Tribe has given us over the last 112 years, it's a privilege to know that this is probably the worst stretch they have ever had. I'm so glad I was alive to see it.

I'd give Sandy the shot, but the way the organization is being run at the moment I can't see the brass opting to pay two managerial salaries next year.

J.R. wrote:

Tribe Fan in SC/Cali wrote:I don't know Joel Skinner would have done as a manager, but I wish he had not been our 3rd base coach in 2007 in Boston for Game 7 of the ALCS.

I wish our Cy Young winner had done his job, so we never would have got to Fenway!

Dingdingdingding....Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner.

To jump in on a bit of that "manager" discussion. Discussion from the Game Time folder. I'd like to throw in my perspective on what a Manager does. I am not trying to start an argument of right or wrong I'm just giving my Flexorol+Beer induced view from a guy who's spent a good chunk of his life in an organization dedicated to winning...and does.

A good manager can squeeze the best performance out of a player, knows when his guys are faltering, knows what to say or do to get them back on track, and can realize just when enough is enough. Acta and his Assistants do not do that.

He can only work with the players he has, and if the players he has aren't as good as the players on the other team, then he has to figure out where their strengths and weaknesses are...shall I say Critical Vulnerability and exploit it.

At the same time he has to be able to cover up the weak spots he has and get the maximum out of the strong spots. (There are entirely too many weak spots on this team to cover up)

When the game is actually played it is the players executing, and they should be executing a game plan that the Manager (and his assistants) came up with. That being said if the players can't execute, they can't execute and they need to be replaced...or figure out what is wrong with them. IF there is no one to replace them (like now) then no matter how good of a manager you are you are destined to fail. That is Acta's fate.

I firmly believe that no manager could make the playoffs let alone win a playoff series with this team. Even though we started out hot...the chinks in the armor are starting to show and the teams that have seen our guys once or twice now have done their homework.

I do feel that Acta and his assistants do not do a good job of prepping, other managers would do better, but I figure those things help win close games...give the little edge, we haven't won many close games...or extra inning games. That is where I feel Acta is failing, that and not knowing his players, and if he rely's on his assistants then they are doing a shitty job too....How the hell does the Pitching coach still have his job with the catostrophic, systematic demise of the pitching on all fronts....IDK.

Before the all star break...if we got to the 7th inning with the lead it was damn near guaranteed. Now...eh not so much...what happened who knows...but I can tell you that Acta knew all he had to do was get the lead by the 7th and it's over.

The utter colapse of the starting rotation, followed by the hitting, followed again by the bullpen in this Epic losing streak...yeah we all want someones head to roll, and a couple have...the guys that in Acta (and the upper managements) mind were not executing. Problem is...their replacements aren't much better.

Sure they can fire Acta, but as I said before with this bunch of guys I don't think anyone can win. I am not a fan of Acta, never really have been. If he gets fired I won't bat an eyelash, same if he stays....until our scouting dept can start drafting some decent players, or when we do end up letting go of the few all-stars and cy youngs we trade they can get something better than the garbage we have been getting...THAT is where I start. We have jack and shit to show for any big guys we traded. We sure as hell aren't going to get any free agents.

Yeah these guys have their moments, but I feel collectively we have seen the best this team has, and hopefully the worst. They have been weighed, and measured and found wanting.

This longest post I've made in a long time has been brought to you by the makers of Flexerol and Miller light.

A thought provoking and funny(the last part) post.

Cant disagree with it except I am Stella Artoising it tonight.

I was listening to Bert Blyleven during the Twins series. He sounded like he knew why
Masterson is struggling. He said that he did not push off the rubber hard enough on his pitches, also
he was picking up his target from the catcher too late for good control. I do think the Indians need different coaches.

Baron wrote:
A good manager can squeeze the best performance out of a player, knows when his guys are faltering, knows what to say or do to get them back on track, and can realize just when enough is enough. Acta and his Assistants do not do that.

You have that correct, and it's especially appreciated from your life "shall we say"........."experience."

rusty2 wrote:To our Otis (Andy Griffith). Keep drinking.

Yawn.....

Cheap shots are easy.

Personal opinion is more challenging to share for public viewing and later public offerings.

Rusty, you mostly hide with appreciated by all shared writings of others, with quips of your own occasionally, but rarely, attached.

Mark Shapiro is a complete disaster as President of The Cleveland Indians.


He's two for eleven in winning seasons under his stewardship. He's controlled the whole gig for well over a decade, and OWNS the current state of the talent in our organization.

Does ANYBODY really think that next year, or the next year, under Mark Shapiro will be any better?

If winning seasons were batting averages for Presidents or GM's, Mark Shapiro will soon be a bonified two for eleven.

That's a .181 for Mark Shapiro. Not "competitive" seasons, just WINNING seasons.

And likely going lower next year, and the next year.



Rusty, before you toss up another cheap shot, please tell us how you think this franchise benefits.......now or in the future.....with Mark Shapiro at the helm.


How and when are we going to win again with Mark Shapiro from this point on, and why?

I expect a report of your personal beliefs and opinions regarding the certainty of success of this franchise under Mark Shapiro before you next post anything other than a shared note from your sources, which we all appreciate of course.

TribeFanInFla:

I don't think you're being completely fair. You're comparing Shapiro and the games his teams have won to the entire league, when most of the teams winning have payrolls a lot higher than his. You should be comparing the job he has done to that of other cash strapped small market teams.

In the last 11 years how many winnings seasons has Pitt had? Kansas City? Cincy?

Heck, even Milwaukee and Minnesota have payrolls 20 mill higher. St.Louis is over 30 mill higher.

Last year there was only 4 teams with lower payrolls. This year there were 9 teams lower on opening day.

How has Shapiro done compared to other guys operating with cash strapped franchises? ... Not too shabby.

Blame the system, not the guy who is doing a semi decent job operating under it with his hands tied.

What we need are some small market owners willing to stand up to Steinbrenner and fight for a cap. And a fight it will be. But I don't think they would have much trouble getting the fans behind them. They just need to go public, and stay out there fighting like hell.

The yankees have destroyed baseball with the no salary cap thing. I therefore hate the yankess more & more each year.

Are you telling me that your Ivy league comments are adding something to this forum ?