Cleveland Sports Forum

As we reported last week on AmicoHoops, the Cleveland Cavaliers’ front office was “ecstatic” after trading Dwyane Wade to the Miami Heat at the NBA trade deadline — as the veteran guard had caused too much damage in the locker room and was a negative influence on the court.

Now that he’s far away from The Land and back in South Beach, new reports are starting to surface as to how bad Wade was for the locker room and on certain players.

According to Cleveland.com, Wade — not Isaiah Thomas — was the first player to vocally challenge coach Tyronn Lue to disclose where All-Star forward Kevin Love had been when he left the arena during a home loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder on Jan. 20.

Initial reports had Thomas as the main player who called out Love, and while Thomas was upset Love went home without telling anyone, it was actually Wade who was the instigator.

Via Joe Vardon:

“But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism. A team source said if anything, LeBron James felt relief from the Wade trade — relief from a pressure point he’d helped create.”

Cleveland.com is also reporting that the Wade signing wasn’t received well by J.R. Smith, who needed months to recover from it because he was constantly looking over his shoulder in regards to when Wade was going to sub in for him during the game.

Wade was perceived to be a calming influence for the Cavs, but it is clear he was the exact opposite of that. He behaved unprofessionally, sapped the team’s energy and spirit, and wasn’t fully invested into the Cavs.

Cavs fans should be thrilled Wade is gone from the team.

Thanks for that HB. Just some rambling stuff by me:

Who'd have thunk....not me.

I do think on the Cavs there is unusual team dynamics (star treatment and pouters) and perhaps veteran Wade wasn't afraid to jump in on some of those.

That said, if guys like JR and Love are treated with kid gloves and it works....well then?

PS - I am sure they would like to dump JR in a heartbeat. Probably Love too at this point due to the new athleticism on the team and in the league. Oh, and his contract.

Wade is used to Miami where management (Riley) has tight control over the organization and the team runs a tight system. Crowder too by the way is used to a tight system.

It is interesting looking under the hood but all teams have issues. Look at the recent news on the Red Sox. Extra scrutiny on high profile teams.

Bottom line the changes changed the mood on the team. I still think surrounding Lebron with young guys eager to learn from him and capable of doing heavy physical lifting frees him up. And as long as he is on the team maximizing him has to be the focus. He's just that good.

Not surprised at all. Did you forget that the young players on the Bulls wanted D Wade off of the team as quickly as possible ?

Don't be surprised when it is revealed that Lebron instigated Wade to jump on Love.

Thomas got on Love but he went after LeBron and Wade verbally. That is why it was reported that no one was left unscathed. Thomas was the only player with enough balls to go after LeBron. Crowder was Thomas's back up and heavy. After that meeting it was decided that both had to go if there was any chance of Lebron staying.

I still think Love would have been gone if he had not been injured and the Cavs would have had a rim protector right now.

Rajon Rondo called out Dwyane Wade and Jimmy Butler and he's right
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The Bulls really do have a leadership problem. The only one able to notice it is Rajon Rondo.


By Zito Madu@_Zeets Jan 27, 2017, 11:08am EST

Rajon Rondo is right. Dwyane Wade and Jimmy Butler are wrong for what they did. There’s an old leadership adage that one should criticize in private and praise in public, and it’s one that Rondo seems to abide. The first two sentences of his Instagram post invokes that belief: “My vets would never go to the media. They would come to the team.”


One of the worst things you can do to a human being is to shame them in public, to embarrass them in front of the watching world. Conversely, one of the best ways to inspire someone is to hype them up when everyone’s looking. Even when they’re playing bad and you’re frustrated with them.


“You’ll get them next time, just release the ball a little earlier when you shoot” — constructive criticism is much more worthwhile than any “what the hell were you thinking?” People may think is effective because sports coaches in movies and TV shows push it as such. It’s not.

There’s no need to pretend that the player isn’t struggling. But the individual is more aware of their bad play than the supposed leader. What they need at that time, when they’re at their lowest, isn’t someone to double down on them but for someone to lend a hand. Throwing them under the bus further demoralizes them.

Because everyone is wired differently, you can sometimes embolden some players with this heavy-handed tactic, but an empathetic approach is usually better. That’s why Rondo writes: “When we lost, they wouldn’t blame us. They took responsibility and got in the gym. They showed the young guys what it meant to work.”

That Wade and Butler were angry at blowing a 10-point lead in the last three minutes to the Hawks is understandable. That they were annoyed at being the only two players contributing significantly to the offense is even more so. That they then went to the media to isolate themselves as the only two doing their jobs, and then to admonish their teammates, and especially the younger ones who were said to lack passion, forfeits their claim to leadership.

"I can look at Jimmy and say Jimmy's doing his job. Jimmy can look at me and say Dwyane's doing his job. I don't know if we can keep going down the line and be able to say that."

It’s not that some of their criticisms are wrong, but there was no sense in going public. Statements like that are sensational and divisive by themselves, and were always going to become more so the second they hit the internet. They have merit, but throwing them out in front of the media forces their teammates to read about their supposed inferiority and lack of passion. It is impulsive and myopic. Wade and Butler not only distanced themselves from their teammates, they looked down on them.

As Rondo said: “It takes 1-15 to win. When you isolate everyone, you can’t win consistently.”

The general attitude to Rondo’s statement seems to be a call for him to leave the Bulls. There’s been a snide attitude towards the message and the irony of him calling for private assessments while posting on social media. There’s an idea that Rondo is not good, and he’s been troublesome on all of his teams, thus he’s the last player that should be saying anything. Even more, he’s calling out the two best players on the team.

But by Wade and Butler going public first with their disapprovals, Rondo had no choice but to retaliate in the same space. Rondo isn’t even defending himself in that post, he’s defending the young players. He’s being their shield: “The young guys work. They show up. They don’t deserve blame.”

He has to show them public support so they know that someone has their back, otherwise all the world would know is that Wade and Butler thinks that these players lack passion and effort. If the sides are divided, they were done by those two, not him. It’s even more critical that he did it, because there have been reports that those young players look up to him. He has always supported them, even practicing with them at Summer League and going to D-League games.



His last line about leadership is perfect: “If anything is questionable, it’s the leadership.”

David Foster Wallace once wrote that, “a real leader is somebody who can help us overcome the limitations of our own individual laziness and selfishness and weakness and fear and get us to do better things than we can get ourselves to do on our own.”

When the Bulls lose games they shouldn’t, blowing leads and failing defensively, the worst thing that can happen is for the veterans to throw the younger players under the bus. They need to learn and to be confident.

Wade even says this himself right after criticizing them to TV cameras: “There's guys in this league that people don't think they can play; once they get into certain situations, once they get certain confidence, they can play.”

That confidence doesn’t fall from the sky, and they can gain it on their own, but they need outside belief, as well. They need for their main guys to acknowledge and help them, even when they’re failing. In that regard, Rondo is more worthy of that designation of leader than are Wade and Butler.

Of course, from the outside, no one can know too much about the locker room dynamic. Perhaps Wade and Butler are very helpful to the other players away from the camera. Yet, for all of the heat that Rondo has gotten for this due largely to his own history, he is right. Nothing good could have come out from what Wade and Butler said. Regardless if they’re right or wrong, it was unnecessary. Attacking your teammates isn’t going to fix your issues. Helping them might.

The Bulls got rid of Wade because they did not want him around their young team.

rusty2 wrote:

I still think Love would have been gone if he had not been injured and the Cavs would have had a rim protector right now.

Oh yeah, I get that.

Altman now knows he can make trades and accommodate/compliment Lebron while still getting younger and more athletic for the future which is a win/win whether Lebron stays or goes.

Sky's the limit now for Altman.

rusty2 wrote:Rajon Rondo called out Dwyane Wade and Jimmy Butler and he's right
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The Bulls really do have a leadership problem. The only one able to notice it is Rajon Rondo.

Because everyone is wired differently, you can sometimes embolden some players with this heavy-handed tactic, but an empathetic approach is usually better.

Psychology 101 - figure out who needs what. Crushing everyone never works.

You know, when you think about it, star players are probably the last guys to play team psychologist. Always been said they make bad coaches/managers.

Also speaking after a loss when you are still pissed off never a sound strategy.

To me, the Steve Kerrs, the Jeff Hornacek. Doc Rivers types make good leaders. Oh, and Ty Lue, lol. Good players but not stars who everything came easily to.

Remember Magic and Larry as coaches? Didn't have the patience and said do - and this sounds similar.

Great stuff rusty and thanks for the follow up article

Channing Frye is back to Cleveland, for appendectomy.

CLEVELAND CAVALIERS

NBA mock draft 2018: Who might the Cavaliers get with the Brooklyn Nets' pick?

Posted February 19, 2018 at 05:05 AM | Updated February 19, 2018 at 09:48 AM


CLEVELAND, Ohio – The NBA All-Star break has a couple more days left for the Cavaliers, the trade deadline is over and the Cavaliers still have their coveted first-round draft pick from the Brooklyn Nets.

What can it get them?

Let’s take an early forecast with this mock draft.

Players are listed with their height, position and college. Teams’ odds of making the lottery, plus what their options could be in that slot are noted. The order is based on records at the break.

By Matt Goul, cleveland.com


1. Atlanta: Deandre Ayton, 7-0 center, Arizona
Lottery odds: 25 percent

Options here: The Hawks are mostly stripped of talent. They have point guard Dennis Schroder under contract until 2021. The top draft prospects appear to be Ayton and Read Madrid guard Luka Doncic.


2. Phoenix: Luka Doncic, 6-8 PG/SG, Slovenia
Lottery odds: 19.9 percent

Options here: Doncic is No. 1 on many boards. He can play just about anywhere on the perimeter. Phoenix just traded for Elfrid Payton, who is a restricted free agent this summer, but Doncic is too good to pass up. They could pair him with Payton and Devin Booker.


3. Dallas: Marvin Bagley III, 6-11 forward, Duke
Lottery odds: 15.6 percent

Options here: All it takes for Bagley to sky-rocket toward being a potential No. 1 pick is a dominant March with the Blue Devils. Dirk Nowitzki has to retire at some point, right? Even if it isn’t this year, why not draft his replacement at power forward to learn from the franchise player?


4. Orlando: Trae Young, 6-2 point guard, Oklahoma
Lottery odds: 11.9 percent

Options here: Orlando just traded Elfrid Payton, so point guard will be a need this offseason. Young might wind up being the most popular pick of this draft with his breakout freshman season in Norman, Okla.


5. Sacramento: Mohamed Bamba, 7-0 center, Texas
Lottery odds: 8.8 percent

Options here: Well, the Kings just sent George Hill to the Cavs. They also have rookie De’Aaron Fox at point guard. Taking Bamba gives the Kings a tremendous interior foundation with 7-foot Willie Cauley-Stein.

6. Memphis: Jaren Jackson, 6-10 forward/center, Michigan State
Lottery odds: 6.3 percent

Options here: Michael Porter Jr. makes sense here, but is this too early for a player who is hurt this season? If the Grizzles pick here, they could entertain trades on draft night: whether it’s the pick or sending out a veteran, such as Mike Conley or Marc Gasol.


7. Cleveland (from Brooklyn): Michael Porter Jr., 6-10 forward, Missouri
Lottery odds: 4.3 percent

Options here: This selection could be a coincidence. When the Cavs acquired the Brooklyn pick, it seemed sure to be in the top three. So did Porter. Then he suffered a back injury and the Nets had a pulse to start the season (but lost seven straight before the break).

Let’s assume he clears medically leading up to the draft and this is the order. Maybe Porter goes to Memphis at No. 5, which opens a player such as Jaren Jackson to go here. The bottom line is the Cavs still have this pick, which will make this draft nearly as intriguing in Cleveland as the one in April for the NFL.

Now, looking to the rest of the draft, here is who else could be considered for the Cavs at the moment …

8. Chicago: Miles Bridges, 6-6 forward, Michigan State
Lottery odds: 2.8 percent

Options here: Expect a frontcourt player to be taken here. A year ago, the Bulls sent Jimmy Butler to Minnesota for guards Kris Dunn and Zach LaVine.

9. New York: Wendell Carter Jr., 6-10 center, Duke
Lottery odds: 1.7 percent

Options here: The Knicks could go in a few directions, whether it’s a true point guard to push Frank Ntilikina over to shooting guard or a frontcourt presence to pair with Kristaps Porzingis, once he’s recovered from injury. The trade for Emmanuel Mudiay suggests a frontcourt presence is more likely, so ...


10. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers): Kevin Knox, 6-9 forward, Kentucky
Lottery odds: 0.8 percent

Options here: If you’re a Cavs fan, hope Magic Johnson’s salary-stripping trade of Larry Nance Jr. and Jordan Clarkson doesn’t lead to a slumping finish. The Lakers’ pick goes to Boston if it lands at Nos. 2 through 5. If it is Nos. 1, 6 or later, it goes to Philadelphia.

Kevin Love: Cavaliers needed to trade half the team

By Joe Vardon, Cleveland.com jvardon@cleveland.com
LOS ANGELES -- Kevin Love said the Cavaliers' blowing up of their locker room last week was necessary.

"Yeah, I think that was pretty apparent," Love said at All-Star Saturday in Los Angeles. Love was selected as an All-Star this season, but cannot play due to a broken bone in his left hand.

By now, even the casual fan knows general manager Koby Altman shipped out six players last week -- including Isaiah Thomas and Dwyane Wade -- and netted Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance Jr., George Hill, and Rodney Hood in return.

The Cavs were a mess on the court and off, and Wade and Thomas both took issue with Love for missing a game and a practice in January with an illness.

"It might not have been a bad thing to get some fresh faces in there and guys from situations where they really wanted to win," Love said. "I think first and foremost, seeing those (new) guys in Atlanta, they didn't play, but they got there right after the trade and they just said they want to win. You can tell when somebody says it, you can tell when somebody means it. They really meant it and it felt good to have that there."

On Friday, cleveland.com reported that it was Wade who first took issue with Love at the infamous heated team meeting on Jan. 22, forcing coach Tyronn Lue to address Love's absence (which in essence started the meeting).

Love, who is often adept at answering questions about Cavs controversies (there are several in any given year), said of Wade: "If there was a lot of friction, I didn't see it.

"I know that guys were pissed that we were losing during a time that it happened," Love said. "I think there was a number of guys that used Ty Lue as ... a sounding board and wanted to bounce ideas off him, and D-Wade was one of those guys."

Love, who was injured Jan. 30, said he's resumed running and will have his cast removed at the four-week mark. He was originally ruled out for eight weeks following the injury.

Love, a southern California native who went to college at UCLA, has been highly visible in L.A. this week, attending numerous events for corporate sponsors. He preached caution when asked to consider the Cavs' chances for a return to the Finals after the trades.

"It's going to be interesting to see what happens," he said. "I feel like if we get a couple months under our belt playing together we can be tough."

Marcus Thornton - G - Cavaliers

The Cavaliers are signing G Marcus Thornton to a 10-day contract.

The 6'4" guard has been playing in the G League for the Canton Charge this season, averaging 18.8 points, 3.5 triples, 3.0 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 0.6 steals and 0.1 blocks in 36.0 minutes.

Interesting - Thornton another Hood-style no conscience volume shooter who can carry a team if hot.

Not sure how much he will play but he's a gunner all right.

Mark, this is something you want to listen to. Griffin on last summer and his leaving the Cavs.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22558174

On the day of the NBA draft back in June, just days after Cleveland parted ways with former GM David Griffin, a robust Cavs contingent made up of front-office personnel, coaches and team support staff members held an impromptu, "what if?" discussion about Kyrie Irving's future, multiple team sources confirmed to ESPN.

The discussion, characterized as "small talk" by one source familiar with its content, was less a formal straw poll of what the Cavs should do with their All-Star point guard should trade opportunities present themselves, and more of a thought exercise anticipating what the market could bear for a player of Irving's caliber.

The talk got back to Irving, multiple team sources told ESPN, and that served as the tipping point that led to Irving formally requesting a trade a little more than two weeks later.

"It was sloppy," one league source familiar with the draft-day discussion told ESPN, adding that any talk about trading a player of Irving's ilk -- however informal it might be -- should be handled strictly between the GM and owner, because of the sensitive nature of its content. Once a player feels expendable or undervalued from his own team, getting him to buy back in is a prickly proposition.


While Altman was involved in the meeting, he and Mike Gansey -- at that point officially the head of the Cavs' G League team -- were only keeping the ship afloat on an interim basis and had yet to be formally elevated to their current roles as GM and assistant GM, respectively.

It was a lapse in judgement that is looked back at by some still within the franchise as the consequential moment that led to the trade that sent Irving to Boston and put Cleveland at a disadvantage for most of the 2017-18 season prior to Altman's trade deadline deals.

Whether the decision to hold that discussion in front of so many people was a prudent one or not -- and it should be noted that no one believes it was Altman who leaked that discussion to Irving or his agent, Jeff Wechsler -- there was a communication flow Altman had to control once he was put in place to run the Cavs' front office.

While the Cavs were struggling in late December through early January, LeBron James questioned Altman's absentee status on a long Cleveland road trip, team sources told ESPN. It was a big difference from Griffin, who was in constant communication with James in their three seasons in Cleveland together. Altman had his reasons, however. For one, he and his fiancée welcomed the birth of their first child, who experienced health complications, and Altman was there for his family as a father. Also, unlike in years past, the Cavs had two first-round draft picks to prepare for in the 2018 NBA draft. Altman's scouting duties were more involved than Griffin's were in the past.

The fact that Altman went to James prior to the trade deadline for a sit-down meeting to loop in his superstar about the potential deals the Cavs would swing, as earlier reported by ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, was seen as progress.

James publicly lauded Altman, referring to him by name in a news conference for the first time since media day.

"I think Koby did a heck of a job of understanding what our team needed," James said after the Cavs' win over the Thunder before the All-Star break. "It just wasn't working out for us and he felt like, obviously you guys saw his quotes, he made the changes that he felt best fits our team."


LeBron James applauded GM Koby Altman for the trade deadline moves that brought in Jordan Clarkson and three other players. Winslow Townson/USA TODAY Sports
Earlier that day, James offered a maxim that could very well be the guide for the Cavs organization to follow in making the most of the opportunity ahead of them this season.

"Communication is always key in sports," James said. "If you have new guys or guys who have been together for years, communication is always key."

When Kevin Love makes it back on the court from his broken left hand, which is expected to keep him out at least three more weeks, he'll be rejoining a team that has said goodbye to his three closest teammates from a year ago: Frye was traded this month, Richard Jefferson was traded in October, and James Jones retired in the offseason.

Without that insulation, Love recognizes he will have to go out of his comfort zone to make connections to his new teammates -- particularly because he won't have the benefit of playing with them as they dip their toes into the Cavs' waters for the first time.

"For me it's [imperative to] continue to stay vocal, always being around, make sure I'm on the road trips," Love said during All-Star Weekend. "Even when I'm not out there [on the court], I need to be there and be one of the leaders for this team."


Kevin Love has been at the center of some of the bumpiest moments of the Cavs' season to date. Glenn James/NBAE via Getty Images
There is some wisdom earned through experience behind the quote.

Love left the arena early after feeling sick during an embarrassing 148-124 loss to the Thunder on ABC's Saturday prime-time game on Jan. 20, and missed practice the following day. That led to a tumultuous team meeting when the Cavs convened for practice the following Monday, prompted by Thomas and Wade -- two teammates Love was playing with for the first time. The confrontation began after Lue brought the team in to start practice and Love didn't offer up anything about his status. Several team sources told ESPN they believe the meeting never would have occurred the way it did had Love provided an explanation.

There were still lingering feelings, sources told ESPN, from how Love handled a loss in Chicago last March when he fouled out midway through the fourth quarter and immediately retreated to the locker room, rather than remain on the bench in support of his team. Jefferson ran to the back to bring him back out, but the damage was done.

Love, of course, was not the reason the sub-.500 Bulls scored 37 points in the third quarter that day. He wasn't the reason Irving shot 7-for-20, or the reason Shumpert shot 2-for-8, or the reason James had four turnovers and shot 1-for-4 (0-for-3 from 3) in the fourth quarter. Even if he was a scapegoat, as often has been the case with Love in his three and a half seasons in Cleveland, there was still a perception of him giving up on the team.

It's another issue he and the team will have to face head-on for the Cavs to reach their ultimate goal this season.

Outside of James, Love is indisputably the most accomplished player on the Cavs after their roster reshuffle. He said that it was "pretty apparent" the trade deadline moves were a necessary shake-up. Love would benefit by staking his claim on the new-look team.

"I live by a great quote and it's, 'Only by admitting who we are can we get what we want,'" Love said.

Whatever skeletons remain in the Cavs' closet will likely not surface to the degree they have this year if Cleveland returns to winning form.

Cleared out are many of the "agendas" that Lue referred to following a disappointing loss in Toronto last month. In their place are four new pieces, an intriguing rookie in Cedi Osman and a rejuvenated James.

James, whose usage percentage in his last two games before the break was 39.2, according to ESPN Stats & Information -- which leads the NBA -- and who is on pace to play in all 82 games for the first time in his 15-year career, appears ready to give his all between now and whenever the Cavs' run in the playoffs is over.


In the Cavs' four-game win streak that started the day before the trade deadline, LeBron James is averaging 30.0 PPG, 9.5 RPG and 13.0 APG. AP Photo/Sue Ogrocki
"I'm ready to go, that's all that matters," James said Wednesday. "That's all that matters, a great break, so I'm ready to go."

And the rest of the Cavs, according to Lue, are prepared to follow along right beside him.

"I just think when you're young, you don't know any better," Lue said. "You just want to play the game and play hard and that's all you know."