Cleveland Sports Forum

In Cleveland, we need to stop starting over with Browns, Indians and Cavs: Terry Pluto


Published: Sunday, August 26, 2012, 11:57 AM Updated: Sunday, August 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
"They need to blow it up."

I heard that sentence a few times this weekend when fans and media members talk local sports.

"Blow it up, start over."

They could be talking about the Indians.

Or the Browns.

Or both.

It was hard to know, because blowing up teams seems to be what ignites most sports conversations.

I figured it wasn't the Cavs ... they haven't lost a game for months, and they're not even in training camp.

No doubt, some will want to detonate them by January as the losses pile up.

That's because what we know how to do in Cleveland is start over ...

And over.

And over.

Consider that Manny Acta has the longest tenure of any manager/coach in town.

When the Tribe season ends, it will be three years.

Anyone willing to bet that he sees a fourth season?

They come and go ... and go ... and go.

Coaches, players and 4-year plans that are trashed in only a few years.

KA-BOOM!

In 2007, the Indians won 96 games and came within a victory of reaching the World Series.

Only three players from who opened the 2007 season still remain with the Tribe: Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner and Roberto Hernandez.

Only Sizemore didn't play at all this season because of injuries.

Only Hafner didn't play much this season because of injuries.

Only Hernandez didn't pitch much this season because he used to be called Fausto Carmona, and that was an illegal identity.

Only the 2007 Indians already had a Roberto Hernandez, a 42-year-old reliever who pitched part of the year.

I know ... confusing.

The point is the 2007 Tribe is dust and ashes.

Asdrubal Cabrera and Raffy Perez (hurt in all of 2012) were promoted at mid-season in 2007. Shin-Soo Choo had 20 late-season at bats.

Not a single player who was on the field for 100 games in 2007 did the same this season.

Not a single coach remains from the 2007 team.

The 2007 Indians are long gone, taking with them the last Tribe team with a winning record.

You know the story of CC Sabathia, Jake Westbrook, Victor Martinez and Cliff Lee (who spent part of 2007 in the minors). All were later traded because they became too expensive.

Some of those deals backfired, producing only one regular player (Michael Brantley) and one starting pitcher (Justin Masterson).

And that has led to talk of blowing up the front office.

At least President Mark Shapiro and General Manager Chris Antonetti have been around for more than a decade. They also have the hardest job in town of any executives because they are in the one sport with no salary cap.

Nonetheless, the last few years have been frustrating ones for them and their fans. The Indians must do something, starting with ownership increasing the budget and the front office coming up with a significantly different approach.

This is not working as the Tribe seems headed for its third 90-game losing season in the last four years.

Who'd have seen that coming after the 96-66 season in 2007?

BA-BOOM!

Next come the Browns, where fans assume new owner Jimmy Haslam will "blow it up."

All the losing has the Browns shell-shocked. Does it really make sense to reduce the Browns to rubble ... again?

Pat Shurmur is the third coach in five years.

Tom Heckert is the third general manager in five years.

The Browns have only five players who have been with the team for more than four years: Phil Dawson (1999), Joshua Cribbs (2005), D'Qwell Jackson (2006), Joe Thomas (2007) and Ahtyba Rubin (2008).

Brandon Weeden will be the 11th different opening day quarterback since the Browns returned in 1999, and I'm hearing from fans who have already seen enough of the rookie after five preseason quarters.

The Browns have been blowing themselves up for years.

Obviously, the coaching staff has to be evaluated after the season, but can we at least allow them to lose a regular season game before pulling the pin on the hand grenade of disdain? Regardless of who coaches the team next season (and I hope Pat Shurmur shows enough promise to stay), the general direction of the team has to remain steady.

President Mike Holmgren can move on. But Heckert and the 4-3 defense along with some form of the West Coast Offense must remain. The Browns will have one of the youngest teams in the league, and no one should expect even a .500 season.

Not after winning only 32 percent of their games in the last 10 years.

But the Browns also will never even come close to contention if every few years it's a new general manager, a new coach and new schemes on offense and defense.

WHAM!

Consider that the Cavs blew themselves up after LeBron James rocked their world by going to Miami in the summer of 2010.

Guess how many players are left from that team?

Two: Anderson Varejao and Daniel Gibson.

Two from three years ago.

New coaching staff, new front office came to town just as James was plotting his exit.

Cavs fans seem more patient than those of the other teams, partly because they aren't that far removed from the playoff seasons of 2006-10. And also, James was the target of most of the wrath.

That will soon change as another losing season looms.

Since Mike Fratello was hired in the summer of 1999, the Cavs have had six different head coaches -- including two interims. That's the same number as the Browns.

Like the Browns, major change is not a wise course. Fans have to hope General Manager Chris Grant and Coach Byron Scott get it right when it comes to drafting and developing players.

That's because after all the bombs have fallen, stability is the Cavs only chance -- and the same for the Browns.

seagull wrote:

I won't be here next year. I believe the word is fugum.

I like that word fugum.

Where you going?

fugum is a Latin word, related to fugere = "to flee." (as in fugitive, one who flees)

So Husker is going to flee the forum.

Indians change their name to the Fugawis.

I was thinking more about the red and bolded stat below. To state the same in a different way, since May 24.....over 90 days ago.....we have only won 29 games.

That's a track record of three months winning just a tick over 9 games per month.

Nine freaking wins a month.

And, to get to a total of 9 wins for the month of August we have to take four of the next five games.


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cleveland.com


Cleveland Indians P.M. links: Close loss almost counts for good these days; what to do for the future?


Published: Monday, August 27, 2012, 3:11 PM

Mike Peticca, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Indians open a four-game home series tonight against the Oakland Athletics, before the Texas Rangers visit for three games beginning on Friday night.

The week could impact the American League Western Division race. The two-time defending AL champion Rangers hold a 5 1/2 game lead over the second-place Athletics.

There is no drama of such kind for the Indians (55-72). They have lost 23 of their last 28 games. Since a 26-18 start to the season, Cleveland is 29-54.

Indians' pitching has struggled, although the staff has yielded just 11 runs in the last four games (three of them losses). The Tribe offense has simply been lousy. The Indians have scored three or fewer runs in their last seven games, and in 29 of their last 46.

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-bl ... out_sports

Husker, you are right.

I do not care . Just because you do, does not make Ocker a better writer.

I was talking about Ocker. Obviously you are talking about the team and organization.

Seems like if you were going to be gone it would have been years ago.

Got to believe you are sticking around. If not. Back to line 2.

"What's our record, Larry?"

"Twenty-nine and fifty-four!"

"Twenty-nine ... and ... fifty-four. How did we ever win twenty-nine games?"

"It's a miracle!"

"It's ... a miracle."

I also think the Pluto article is not any better.

To even suggest that we need to stop blowing things up is silly, almost stupid. If it is not working, then you blow it up. You do not say, well, we have done this 10 times before so let's not blow it up again.

Terry Pluto has become really, really boring.

Fugawis.

Reminds me of an old Redd Foxx joke.

I thought the articles were pretty entertaining. Caused a few chuckles. The more writers that keep piling on these guys, perhaps the sooner we get some changes.

I have always hated those stupid articles where Pluto talks to himself. Sad to see Ocker copy that lame thing.

Pluto dilly dallied and did a three card monte by dancing around and omitting the fact that The Cleveland Indians have had solidity and stability in the organizational management with combined years of over 1/3 of a century.

The mention of the tenure of Manny Acta and the rapidly changing roster of "players" was a divert and redirect attempt.

I'll agree with Rusty that Terry Pluto has apparently become a tool, though that's my word, not Rusty's.

Mark Shapiro has been with The Cleveland Indians for near 22 years. He's been GM and President since 2001, and he is credited with running the minors starting 17 years ago.

Chris Antonetti has been with The Cleveland Indians for 14 years.

When Antonetti was "passed the baton" to become GM, the press noted that Shapiro and Antonetti dressed alike, carried water alike, and prided in thinking alike. Shapiro was an Ivy League guy who never played baseball beyond high school, and Chris Antonetti was a Georgetown grad who grew up in the shadows of Yale and never played a baseball game beyond the age of 15.

I believe the quote was "the only difference between Chris Antonetti and Mark Shapiro is that Chris is four inches shorter."

This Cleveland Indians franchise has been the epitome of stability, and groupthink, that continues to find new ways to produce losing seasons and bleak organizational futures.

Again, we have only had two winning seasons since 2001, and I do not think any of us see a winning season coming next season or the one thereafter.

I guess I'm confused ?? What was it about those articles that weren't spot on ??

How could Duncan and Laporta have lasted this long ??

Will the real Carlos Santana please stand up ?