Cleveland Sports Forum

Hey rusty - speaking of moving on, do you think Kyrie knew something was up with Gilbert which added to his wanting to get out?

Figuring 1 more year, one more loss to Warriors, then a total rebuild. Instead he escapes to Boston.

It might explain the entire David Griffin situation also. Gilbert did what he wanted to do. Would not be surprised if he tried to buy the Browns. The NBA is a league that I would not want to be an owner in.

Looks more and more like LeBron might be headed to Houston.

That team would be ridiculous with him. Warriors beware.

Next season that is - not this one.

Although Houston is crazy good already this season - not counting them out.

It would be fitting if Lebron left when Gilbert did. Would kind of take the pressure off both.

Griffin might have known that Gilbert was preparing to sell also.

Cavs totally different organization without Gilbert playing Richy Rich !

Irving asking Gilbert what LeBrons intentions were in the future might as easily have been what were Gilbert's intentions if LeBron left ?

For years most Cavs fans were not sure who the better player was ? Irving or Waiters ? WOW !

Google Jason Loyd asking Isiah Thomas about someone in the locker room questioning Thomas's shot selection ? Thomas immediately says who ? This team is dysfunctional.

Thanks for the link rusty.

I've lobbied for this to be the last season for Lebron (after all the title thing is done) but it would seem that this has possibly all been decided.

Kyrie leaves. Griffin leaves, like you pointed out. Did they know something?

I say one last run this season then he goes out West somewhere. Time for the Cavs to start over.

I think I already pointed out that Griffin stated that if Lebron leaves, then 2018-'19 would be a total loss because contracts dictate that. They are locked into commitments so the season would be a crap team with no hope.

Not to mention team age and a team loaded with guys who are totally dependent on Lebron for their value. Remember the goofy combination of role players we had last time he left? Same.

But he says the following offseason they could do some business. Might as well get on with it.

Oh, and Isiah Thomas?? They will let him walk because his defense is not worth a long term investment - ask Danny Ainge. He's a great role player but not a franchise type contract guy.

On the subject of this year's team - good move putting TT back in the lineup. Their defense was sooo bad with Love at center.

I do understand TT is finally getting back into playing shape so they didn't have much choice. But Love is a power forward - NOT a center except for short stretches.

Kyrie and Curry... quite a shootout yesterday.

NBAWe’d Be Lucky To See Stephen Curry and Kyrie Irving In the NBA Finals Again



Kyrie Irving thought, before all of us, that he was Stephen Curry’s peer. Fortunately for us, he’s proven himself correct.

Moke Hamilton Published 19 hours ago on January 28, 2018 By Moke Hamilton

Saturday night was the kind of night Kyrie Irving probably envisioned when he took his fate into his own hands and asked out from beneath LeBron James’ mighty shadow.

Think about it: it was Irving who hit one of the biggest shots in NBA Finals history when the Cleveland Cavaliers toppled the Golden State Warriors, but LeBron James who received most of the credit.


During the 2016 NBA Finals, it was Irving who averaged 27.1 points on 47 percent shooting from the field, including 40.5 percent from behind the three-point arc, and it was he who emerged with James as the best players in a Game 5 that saw each of the two score 41 points and help get the Cavs to the Game 6 that they needed.

Irving never was LeBron’s sidekick—he was always his peer.

Irving knew. We didn’t.

* * * * * *

Just who are the Boston Celtics?

Are they eventual bridesmaids who will suffer the same fate of some of the great teams of yesteryear? Good enough to play for all the marbles but not good enough to take them?


It’s early, and we don’t know. But at this point, Irving can already be considered to have won as it relates to his forced divorce from James.

When Irving made the decision to pursue his own path elsewhere, he mentioned the Minnesota Timberwolves and New York Knicks among the teams to which he would welcome a trade. Only a player with supreme confidence (or arrogance, which is what many people translated Irving’s request as) would have been willing to “trade down” in such a way.

Irving did it excitedly.

Deep down inside, he wanted to prove that, with his own team on his back and the rest of the Warriors on his hip, he could look Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green in the eyes and tell each of them that he belonged.

Even without Gordon Hayward, Irving has done that. Meanwhile, in his wake in Cleveland appears to be an aging, unmotivated team whose return to the NBA Finals for a fourth straight year appears quite far away.

When the Celtics defeated the Warriors in Boston earlier this season, in the game’s aftermath, Curry said that he was curious to see what the weather was like in Boston in June.


In a similar way, truth be told, we’re all wondering what a Finals matchup between the Warriors and Celtics would look like.

At this point, we have enough of a sample size to conclude that Curry and Irving seem to bring out the best in one another. On Saturday night, Curry’s 49 points (on 16-for-24 shooting from the field) sent a clear message to Irving: I’m still the top dog.

Irving, to his credit, led the resilient Celtics back from a fourth quarter deficit and had a few opportunities to tie the game for his club. The Warriors, in the end—and to nobody’s surprise—were a bit too much.

That the Celtics have mostly stood toe-to-toe with the juggernaut, though, is.

Irving turned in 37 points of his own. He converted his first seven shots of the night before ending up having gone 13-for-18 from the field.

Curry himself agreed that we should be rooting to see the two go at it a tad more.

What’s most interesting about Irving and his career to this point is how he’s been such a magnificent inlier. Earlier in his career, despite his individual brilliance, he was unable to lead the young Cavs to many wins. In this very space, it was wondered whether he was just the second coming of Gilbert Arenas.

With James’ return to Cleveland (it seems so long ago, doesn’t it?) the initial questions that surrounded Irving were related to whether he got “empty numbers,” whether he could contribute to a winning team and whether he would be able to play within the type of team concept that LeBron’s first big three in Miami rode to success.

Again, Irving passed that test with flying colors.

As the years have progressed, the narratives and questions surrounding Irving and who he actually is and what his capabilities are have continued to be question in a way that’s tantamount to moving the goal post. Along the way, we’ve doubted him, we’ve diminished his accomplishments and we’ve loudly proclaimed his game to be full of inefficiencies and shortcomings more than celebrate him for what he truly was.

Now, fortunately for all of us, we’re witnessing his growth into being one of the game’s elite leaders, not just scorers.

And fortunately for us, we now know that Irving belongs in the same class as the NBA’s other superstars—LeBron, Durant and Curry included.

Kyrie was never meant to be Robin. We’re lucky he was brave enough to proactively attempt to prove it to us all.

* * * * * *

To this point, Curry and Irving have squared off against one another 24 times—11 times in the regular season and 13 times in the playoffs. Curry is 15-9 against Irving. Since the beginning of the 2015 calendar year, though, Curry has won five of the eight regular season matchups.

Years later, it’s so easy to forget that Irving was injured during Game 1 of the 2015 NBA Finals, a game in which he recorded 23 points, seven rebounds and six assists before exiting. The Cavs trailed by four points with two minutes remaining in Game 1. They would eventually go on to lose the series, but who knows how things could’ve ended if Irving hadn’t gotten hurt.

The following year, Irving made good, and last year, the Warriors exorcised the demons that haunted them after squandering their 3-1 Finals lead.

In their 13 career playoff matchups, Irving is averaging 27.7 points, 4.2 rebounds and 4.2 assists on 46.8 percent shooting from the field, including 39.5 percent shooting from three-point territory. Curry’s 24.5 points, six rebounds and 6.2 assists are just as impressive. Curry happens to lead the playoff battles 8-5, as well, it should be noted.

But no matter which way you slice, it becomes fairy obvious that Irving and Curry are one of the better rivalries we’ve been privy to over the past few years. That the two have played in different conferences mean we’re only able to witness them go at it a few times each year, but when they perform the way they have, it makes the wait worth it.

Curry seems to think he’ll see Irving in the NBA Finals this year.

The two have long been rivals and peers. James’ broad shadow just blocked our view.

Irving knew it, and we’re lucky he did.

So while Curry ponders what the weather is like in Boston in June, the NBA’s viewing public should only hope that he gets the opportunity to find out firsthand.

No question Kyrie did the right thing because:

1. Yes, he got to prove himself
2. He got to abandon a ship that will be the Titanic soon enough

Oh, and Danny Ainge has to be thanking his lucky stars he got Isiah Thomas off his team



20
The Cleveland Cavaliers have drama. And it’s up to LeBron James to fix it.
By Tom Ziller@teamziller Jan 29, 2018, 12:00pm EST


Brad Rempel-USA TODAY Sports
Without being inside Isaiah Thomas’ mind, it seems fair to declare that the chip on his shoulder has never been bigger. Coming off two NBA All-Star Game berths and a masterful offensive season in Boston, Thomas believed he had finally established his league bonafides. The world had finally acknowledged what he knew all along: not only could he have an NBA career, but he could have an excellent NBA career. He could be a star.

Then the Celtics traded him.

That Thomas took this personally was obvious from every interview he did, from every piece he published in The Players’ Tribune. He has some real anger for Boston, particularly Celtics boss Danny Ainge. That anger manifests in motivation: Thomas wants to show the Celtics they made a mistake. He wants to prove them wrong. He wants to beat them. And not as a member of the Cleveland Cavaliers necessarily — he has established no real bonds there. He, as a basketball player, just wants to beat Boston. This is vengeance.


Meanwhile, Kevin Love does have bonds in Believeland. He came to the Cavaliers as a legitimate star putting up Moses Malone numbers. The only question about him was whether he could win games. In Cleveland, he did. Injury prevented him from helping James in the 2015 NBA Finals. After signing a big new contract to stay, Love spent much of the next season as the subject of trade murmurs.

In fact, those murmurs about what the Cavaliers would need to do with Love circulated all the way until midway through the 2016 Finals, up to the moment when Love locked down unanimous MVP Stephen Curry in a Game 7 crunch-time possession to help give Cleveland its first championship in eons.

The Love trade murmurs have been much quieter ever since.

Thomas has proven himself time and again, at the University of Washington, in Sacramento, in Boston. It must be frustrating that he would have to prove himself again in Cleveland.

Love has sacrificed more than any other Cavalier over the past four years, in shots, role, minutes, reputation. It must be frustrating that he would again take a back seat, this time to someone who hasn’t proven anything as a Cav.

You can see why there would be friction here.

The level of friction, though, is extraordinary and destructive. Reports out of Ohio suggest Thomas led the critiques of Love last week at that bizarre burlesque of a team meeting. Love had committed the crime of leaving the arena after leaving a game sick; that game turned into Cleveland’s most embarrassing loss of the season. This was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back: It was not the fact that the Cavaliers gave up 148 points in regulation to a middling offensive opponent, but that a sick teammate didn’t bother to witness it in person.

The meeting apparently resolved little, and though the Cavaliers are winning games again (miracle of miracles!), Love showed up Thomas on the court Friday in a display Cleveland players acknowledge as an intended insult. (The players acknowledge this off the record, of course.) Love would appear to be fed up with Thomas. Not knowing exactly what was said in the infamous meeting — seriously, this confab is gaining legendary status as time goes on — we can’t really judge how fair is Love’s fury. But we all know it’s not a good thing for the Cavaliers to have the second- and third-most important players on the team fighting in front of the Basketball Gods and everyone.

Thomas is tired of having to prove himself, and surely frustrated with the toll that hip injury continues to take on his game. There’s little doubt he realizes every day that ticks by brings him closer to an increasingly uncertain free agency. That reality must only compound the stress of it all and stoke the internal fire that forces him to shoot shoot shoot even if he’s not getting the quality of shots he needs and expects.

Love is tired of being the scapegoat, tired of sacrificing for guys who haven’t been in the trenches these four years, tired of being critiqued for no good reason when he’s had a very strong season. Love knows that he is not the reason Cleveland is five games out of first place. He does his job quite well, and has been with James long enough to know when to ratchet up the effort. Who is a new guy to come in and demand something different, especially when that new guy can’t hit a shot or get to the cup (and certainly isn’t defending well)?

Nothing we know about Thomas leads us to believe he’ll back off, and coach Tyronn Lue does not seem to be considering moving him to the bench. (Instead, Tristan Thompson replaced Jae Crowder in the starting five last week in Lue’s big shake-up.) Nothing suggests that Love should be anything but annoyed, though the Friday incident was — assuming the intent matched the hypotheses being suggested — beneath him.


So much remains unknown about that team meeting, but there hasn’t been any reporting suggesting that James stepped in to defend Love. Perhaps he too was annoyed that Love left the arena. (That’d be unfortunate; remember when James fled for Miami for two weeks early in his partnership with Kyrie Irving and Love?) Perhaps James tuned out amid the drama — there really hasn’t been any reporting of what the captain said or did during the blow-up.

James has been passive-aggressive with Love in the past, and it really feels that while they constitute a beautiful basketball pairing, they are work friends, much like Irving and James were. We know how that ended.

Isiah Thomas is, on a top team, a great offensive spark as a 6th man. No more, no less.

Think Vinnie Johnson - wonderful player. Not a franchise type player!! Ainge knew that.

rusty - by the way that is not to knock the Kyrie deal at all.

I know you realize that expiring contracts like his are very valuable in NBA economics. And there is no way they extend him.

As well they got Crowder and that draft pick. So it's all good as the Cavs likely reboot after this season.

One other angle that has not been mentioned. Brooklyn draft pick would be a selling point to a prospective new owner looking at a team without LeBron.....

Report: Cavaliers-Kings trade held up by Cleveland wanting George Hill to surrender future guaranteed salary
By Dan FeldmanJan 30, 2018, 4:25 PM EST
6 Comments
100Share on Facebook (Opens in new window)100Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to email (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)

The Cavaliers appeared on the verge of trading Iman Shumpert and Channing Frye to the Kings for George Hill.

Then, they didn’t.

Why?

Brian Windhorst of ESPN:

George Hill, they didn’t want to buy him out this year. What they wanted to do was protect themselves in the event that, if LeBron James left, whether George Hill would be willing to take a buyout on the $20 million he’s owed on his contract after this season.

There’s actually some precedent for this. Ty Lawson agreed to reduce the guarantee in his contract a few years ago to facilitate a trade from the Nuggets to the Rockets. He flopped in Houston, got cut and lost about $12 million he otherwise would’ve earned. He’s now out of the league.

Hill could similarly agree to reduce the amount of his salary that’s guaranteed in future seasons. Right now, he’s guaranteed $19 million next season and $1 million of $18 million the following season.

Hill might be unhappy in Sacramento, but enough to relinquish significant salary protection just to get to Cleveland? He can probably tough it out on a bad team if it means getting all his money.

I don’t blame the Cavs for wanting Hill to cut them a break. I’m just surprised trade discussions advanced so far based on the idea Hill would actually go for this.