J.R. had planned to capture some of the old forum (bio's especially) for posterity, but Worldcrossing shut out the lights many hours before the announced time.

I caught a bunch of Idle Chatter before the place went "poof."

A rough draft/preliminary roster for opening 2012. I'll give this more thought later as well as my observations on this season.

Starting rotation: Justin Masterson, Jeremy Guthrie, Ubaldo Jimenez, Fausto Carmona, Josh Tomlin.

Bullpen: Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Chen Lee, Rafael Perez, Tony Sipp, Joe Smith, Nick Hagadone

Infielders: Lonnie Chisenhall, Asdrubal Cabrera, Jason Kipnis, Carlos Santana, Jason Donald, Jack Hannahan

Outfielders: Shin Soo Choo, Kosuke Fukudome, Michael Brantley, Shelly Duncan/Trader

Catchers: Chris Iannetta and Lou Marson

DH: Travis Hafner

That's still a really lousy Outfield, but I'm sure you realize that!

I'd rather see Duncan as the DH and various other guys filling in on days they get partial rest. Although I realize that we are stuck with Hafner for another decade or so.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the vet LH relievers is dealt.

No room for Chad Durbin, Joe? I can't believe you don't expect him back.

I do not expect Durbin OR Herrmann to return Civ. At least I'm hoping not.

I checked out the free agent outfield class of 2012. Jason Kubel and Jeff Francoeur are the only outfielders under the age of 30. There's 44 outfielders on that list and Kubel (29), Willingham (33), and David DeJesus (32) are the only players I would be even remotely interested in. If we are still interested in that stud outfielder, we'll have to trade for him. I don't really expect that to happen. I think we're stuck with what we have unless Kipnis heads to the outfield and Valbuena (2b) takes Duncan's roster spot. I'll be keeping track of Valbuena this winter. As with the Indians, he has not been a productive winter ball player either.

I hope Antonetti can do a bit better than that lineup otherwise he might as well shop Jimenez this winter IMO.

I hope Antonetti can do a bit better than that lineup otherwise he might as well shop Jimenez this winter IMO.

Realistically, I can't see how TDU. I'd rather keep Jimenez and take my chances on the pitching staff.

Random thoughts on the day after------

The season got off with a bang. We had that good start we were looking for and we did it without the help of Santana, Choo, LaPorta, Hafner, and Sizemore. All were mired in season long slumps for the most part. Santana showed some power after the break but it was not enough and it was much too late. The Tribe was already on their downward spiral by then. That spiral and the ineffectiveness of our best hitters lead to an influx of our top prospects.

The pitching staff was the glue that held this team together while the offense was pretty much dormant when we needed it. Even before the injuries hit Choo and Sizemore, they were ineffective from the get-go. LaPorta was a huge disappointment. He never did get his act together. LaPorta along with Kearns and Buck turned out to be busts. Hafner never did pay back on the dividends his contract demanded. Out of the bunch, only Santana showed any signs of improvement.

Biggest surprise of the season was the exemplary play of Asdrubal "Superman" Cabrera. The man did it all, eh?

Biggest surprise #2 for me was the acquisition of Kosuke Fukudome. The guy played well both in the field and at the plate. We definitely got our money's worth with Fukudome.

Biggest surprise #3 was the play of Jack Hannahan. Jack was stellar on defense and even had his positive moments on offense.

Biggest disappointments were Choo and Santana.

Topping the charts was the bullpen followed by the starting rotation. A job well done by the pitching staff.

I don't think we ever had a chance of leap frogging Detroit but I thought our pitching staff was strong enough to keep us under the 10 games behind mark. I also thought that the pitching staff was strong enough to keep us above the .500 mark. Unfortunately, the offense stumbled too often along the way and didn't back up the pitching the way they were supposed to.

The season was, most likely, a blessing in disguise. We got an opportunity to watch some of our top prospect position players as well as our top prospect pitchers. I can't say I was a bit disappointed. In my opinion, their play certainly gives Manny Acta and our front office some food for thought at they commiserate over the off season and think about just how to improve this team for season 2012.

Not sure I'd call Santana a disappointment.

Offensively I was hoping his batting average would be about 40 points higher, but those power numbers were pretty good and he's about the only guy in that lineup that has any real idea about taking a walk.

Obviously he needs a lot work as a catcher, but would not move him just yet.

The disappointment was mainly confined to the first half of the season TDU. His power numbers rose dramatically the second half of the season but that was too late. We were out of it by then. He wasn't around when he was needed most.

Nice day after thoughts Joez.

Hard to believe that an 80-82 season could have had that much fun, suspense and ultimate appreciation.

That 15-10 Opening Day Game seems like yesterday......and years ago.

joez wrote:A rough draft/preliminary roster for opening 2012. I'll give this more thought later as well as my observations on this season.

Starting rotation: Justin Masterson, Jeremy Guthrie, Ubaldo Jimenez, Fausto Carmona, Josh Tomlin.

Bullpen: Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Chen Lee, Rafael Perez, Tony Sipp, Joe Smith, Nick Hagadone

Infielders: Lonnie Chisenhall, Asdrubal Cabrera, Jason Kipnis, Carlos Santana, Jason Donald, Jack Hannahan

Outfielders: Shin Soo Choo, Kosuke Fukudome, Michael Brantley, Shelly Duncan/Trader

Catchers: Chris Iannetta and Lou Marson

DH: Travis Hafner

Hmmmm. Well, I would hope they're going to spend a little money this offseason--the Jimenez deal would seem to imply they think these next 2 seasons (at least) are worth fighting for. At the very least, the money the Indians figure to get from revenue sharing ought to be plowed right back into major league talent, instead of going to wherever it's been going these last 2 seasons.

The big questions, at least for me, are:

1. Do we try to muddle through with LaPorta one more year, find a new first baseman somewhere (perhaps a Paul Sorrento type who is being blocked in his current organization), or just move Santana there permanently (the worst solution IMO)?


2. Do we keep Hannahan around? Based on the little I was able to see of the team this season, and just from reading box scores, Chisenhall is someone you're going to want to have on the bench when there's a late inning lead. But Hannahan can't play the middle infield and he's not a good enough hitter to platoon. Unless we go with 11 pitchers, something that I think would be doable but that no one seems to actually want to do, I don't know if we could afford two backup infielders.

3. Duncan's role: Can you platoon him with Brantley, even though they don't fill anywhere near the same role in a batting order? It's hard to platoon a DH when one-half of the platoon can't play the field at all, and he's not a typical outfield backup because he can't play center field. And how seriously should he be taken, given that the Tribe didn't have any big games after Labor Day and that's basically when he started to really hit?

4. Starting pitchers: Hard to believe they're going to go into next season with a Masterson-Jimenez-Carmona-Tomlin-Gomez rotation (this is even assuming Tomlin is physically OK, which we shouldn't assume). But what sort of veteran pitching gets brought in? A Paul Byrd type who can be a solid #4 starter for a playoff team? Just bring in a bunch of scrap heap guys and hope one of them catches lightning in a bottle? Or spend some real money?

5. Should the Indians explore trades of Donald and Marson? They look like they might be able to play regularly somewhere, but are unlikely to get that chance here. A team with surplus righthanded hitting that needs either a catcher or a second baseman might be a good trade match.

My take is that the Indians will sign an everyday catcher and move Santana to 1B. Then we will sign Crisp to play CF, cut Sizemore and see if we can pick up say a Chen or Harang to fill out the rotation. Give Carmona one more year and if he doesn't develop let him and Hafner go next year and save $20M to spend on producing players.

Ditto Chris Perez who if he isn't a lock down closer we can trade and promote Pestano. That might even happen this off season as I think sea suggested.....

But what sort of veteran pitching gets brought in? A Paul Byrd type who can be a solid #4 starter for a playoff team?

He's out there Charlie. I'm pimping Jeremy Guthrie. If I'm not mistaken, he's a free agent. Trouble is, I think the asking price will be pretty high. It will never work out unless we dump Sizemore.

I think Joe has a good choice in Guthrie. I can see the Paul Byrd analogy.

I don't agree with Joe that Fukodome was just a big deal. He had a good stretch for awhile but his OPS was under 700. Disappointing Santana beat him by more than 100 points. In fact Santana had a higher OPS than Cabrera. I agree Santana should do better. I don't think he should end up at 1st; as a 1st baseman he's not much better offensively than average (I mean compared to the rest of baseball, not to the miserable corps we've run out there for the last decade: Broussard, Garko, LaPorta)

I am pretty high on Santana - a pretty darn good first full season if you ask me.

And he got steadily better as he went on.