Cleveland Sports Forum

They are! They're trying to get rid of Kyrie!

LOL but I do follow you. Actually, IMO that trade blatantly was aimed towards Lebron. OK, you get Crowder the wing defender he needs to guard those types. And with Thomas, assuming he is ready in time for the playoffs they are again with Crowder gunning for this year.

And with the pick they are telling Lebron that they are interested in the future. Though it has huge value and could be dealt.

And one other (related) point in the Kyrie situation that HB might enjoy. Fact - Lebron makes other players better. Guys love to play with him because he is completely unselfish and frees up other players because of his mere presence.

It remains to be seen (we've only seen brief glimpses) what Kyrie does without Lebron. (Don't get me wrong, obviously he is a great talent) But it also remains to be seen how good Thomas might be WITH Lebron. It's just a no brainer life is easier with Lebron on your team - guys like going to the Cavs partly for that reason.

In summary, this is my whole take on this thing if I am the Cavs GM. Last season, I was pretty much bored with the whole regular season for the Cavs. Could anything have been more useless? Home court? They totally didn't care about home court despite any rhetoric. Then they simply destroyed the Eastern Conference, home court or not. For a team like them, the regular season is one long (listless) tuneup for the real season with only occasional outbursts of motivation.

This is the NBA's fault for devaluing (taking the drama out of) the season for slam dunk playoff teams like them but I digress....

My point is, if Isiah Thomas can be back and be somewhat full strength by January, then who cares? Those early games are worthless and useless anyways!

So if that is the case and he can do that, take Crowder and that crazy valuable pick and move on. The Cavs will be just fine without Thomas for 2-3 months thank you. Get him back in time to work himself into the rotation and into shape during the rest of the exhibition...errr....regular season and it's all good.

Kyrie is a super star. Love is an all star. No way you get that package for Love.

Mark, why no forum fantasy football this year ?

Which suggests, Hillbilly, that they probably talked with Lebron after Kyrie's trade demand and he did not urge them to try to talk him out of it, doesn't it?

Or it might suggest IT isn't all that injured? Again, this trade is so good that if he can come back during the season it still works.


Isaiah Thomas - G - Cavaliers

In an interview with ESPN, Isaiah Thomas said that he has made "significant progress" with his injured hip.

"I am not damaged," Thomas said on Tuesday. "I'll be back, and I'll be the same player."

Thomas' hip is the reason the trade between the Cavs and Celtics has stalled, as Cleveland wants additional compensation before completing the transaction.

Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN is reporting that the Cavaliers are no longer asking for a young player such as Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum, and he added that Cleveland "could be inclined to complete the deal for a late first-round pick or second-round considerations."

The deadline to finalize the deal is 10 a.m. ET Thursday, but both teams can mutually agree to extend it. His status for opening night is still up in the air. (Duh)

rusty2 wrote:Mark, why no forum fantasy football this year ?

rusty I'm out of the fantasy biz these days.

Story out this morning that if Celtics deal falls through the Milwaukee Bucks have an offer of Kris Middleton and rookie of the year Malcom Brogdon on the table. Rumor is they would include a 1st round pick to get deal done too.

Not shabby. But I'd rather have Thomas and the player we can trade the 1st round Brooklyn pick for. But this is a pretty damn good plan B.

Yeah, I'd rather have the Boston deal too but it's hard to say because of Thomas. If Thomas is damaged goods then I'm not so sure.

HB - you know that Middleton is a high quality forward. I agree, certainly a very nice option to have and if true it shows that Kyrie has excellent value and that the Cavs' position is not a weak one.

Yeah, Middleton was slowed by injuries last year but year before he averaged over 18 a game. Only 4 years in league so just entering his prime. And as mentioned, Brogdon was rookie of the year last year at PG so he has some potential too. Their draft pick won't have much value though but not a bad plan B just in case.

Oh, and by the way, when I was looking at those Bucks guys today after reading the story I noticed both are 40% from 3 point land too. I think Middleton was 43% year before last...

Adrian Wojawhatever is reporting the Celtics have threw in a 2nd round pick and the two teams have finalized the Kyrie trade.

I don't believe any NBA news till Adran Wojawhatever reports it so we can put this to bed now.

Let's go shopping that Brooklyn pick now and get another all star.

Yep it's a done deal with a token 2nd rounder thrown in. That said, 2nd rounders can be put in trades.

Interesting article JUST before trade went down:


Isaiah Thomas's hip injury will cost him some time, but the Cavs should still trade for him

History suggests IT4 may not miss as much time because he chose not to get surgery on his hip.

by Kristian Winfield@Krisplashed Aug 30, 2017, 1:00pm EDT


Greg M. Cooper-USA TODAY Sports

If Isaiah Thomas’s hip recovery — from injuries including a labrum tear and bone bruise — does not proceed smoothly, ESPN’s Zach Lowe reports “there is at least a slight chance” the all-star guard could miss most of the 2017-18 NBA season.

That is the point of much deliberation for Cavaliers general manager Koby Altman, who has until the end of the day to approve or deny a blockbuster trade that sent Kyrie Irving to Boston for Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic, and the Brooklyn Nets’ unprotected 2018 first-round pick.

IT4 suffered a right femoral-acetabular impingement with labral tear — which, in layman’s terms, is not good — in Boston’s second-round series against the Wizards, then aggravated that injury against the Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference Finals. Warriors fans may recall Kevon Looney suffered the same injury and was sidelined four-to-six months after going under the knife.
In fact, while hip injuries aren’t as common as, say, a meniscus or an ACL/MCL tear, there have been a few in recent memory.

Martell Webster’s injury-riddled NBA career virtually ended with a partial hip labrum tear requiring surgery in 2015; he was 28 years old. Wilson Chandler needed both right and left hip labrum repair that cost him virtually the entire 2011-12 and 2015-16 seasons. And Gerald Henderson, LaMarcus Aldridge, Jordan Hill, and Jonny Flynn have each missed extended time due to hip surgery.
But Thomas did not have surgery on the hip that’s held up the blockbuster Irving trade to the Celtics.

He and Boston chose a slower rehabilitation process than surgery, according to The Boston Globe’s Adam Himmelsbach, and Thomas was already back shooting jump shots and doing both on- and off-court cardio training in late July.

That doesn’t mean Thomas will be dressed for Cleveland’s season opener. It just means that the injury, at least for Thomas’s camp, isn’t as serious as it’s been made to be.

"There's never been an indication that I wouldn't be back, and there's never been an indication that this is something messing up my career," Thomas said, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski. "Maybe I am not going to be back as soon this season as everyone wants me to be, but I'm going to be back, and I'm going to be the same player again. No doctor has told me anything different than that.”

Even without Thomas for some time, Cleveland has enough firepower reign supreme in the East.

The Cavaliers still deploy the world’s best basketball player in LeBron James, who serves as the team’s chief playmaker. They signed Derrick Rose, albeit past his prime, who can still score in spots when healthy. And with Crowder added to the mix, Cleveland can switch defensively across multiple position.

So even though Thomas may be out a few games, the Celtics still have the best offer on the table for Cleveland.
In this Storystream

Cavaliers-Celtics trade is 'tremendous' for Cleveland, says former GM David Griffin
Updated on August 30, 2017 at 11:42 PM Posted on August 30, 2017 at 12:45 AM
Former Cleveland Cavaliers GM David Griffin believes the Kyrie Irving-Isaiah Thomas trade will go through as planned.

By Chris Fedor, cleveland.com

cfedor@cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The deadline for the Cleveland Cavaliers and Boston Celtics to finalize their blockbuster trade -- provided the two Eastern Conference powers don't agree to extend -- is fast approaching.

By Thursday morning, the two sides will finally have to figure out whether they are going to move forward with the deal as currently constructed, if another sweetener has to be tossed in to appease the Cavs, who have seemingly pressed pause as they sift through Thomas' medicals, or if they let the deal fall apart.

Given how far along the two sides are and what the Cavs are getting in return for disgruntled point guard Kyrie Irving -- Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's 2018 unprotected first round pick -- former Cavaliers General Manager David Griffin believes protege Koby Altman should proceed as planned, saying he would make the same deal if still running the front office.

"I think I would have," Griffin told NBA TV late Tuesday night. "I really think Koby Altman made a tremendous trade here, given the circumstances. When you're trying to win a championship, there is no in between. You're all the way with me, or you're all the way against me. And I think this was a situation where Kyrie made it clear he had a goal set that might not have jived with what Cleveland's was.

"They made a deal that, even in the absence of Isaiah Thomas, is a tremendous collection of assets and value Koby was able to get. At the same time, Boston made a trade to get a piece that really could be the key for them -- a 25-year old player in his prime who is an NBA champion, an Olympic champion and is really just starting to scratch the surface of who he can be."

The swap seemed done last week. The Cavs sent out a press release thanking Irving for six "impressive years" and talking about how the trade allows the Cavs to remain a title contender while also satisfying their desire to protect their future.

But nothing can be official until all parties involved pass their physicals. That's where the holdup has occurred.

Thomas, who originally injured his hip in March and the re-aggravated the injury during the Eastern Conference Finals, was examined by Cavaliers doctors on Friday and has stayed in contact with them since. He informed ESPN Tuesday night that he has made significant progress and is confident he will be the same player -- even if there is chatter about him missing the start of the regular season.

"I don't think (Thomas' injury) was a surprise necessarily," Griffin said. "I think when you go through these deals, you share all the information you have and you share all the images you have. If the most recent images from Isaiah were as far back as the playoffs, then when you get a new set of images now that's going to create the ability to compare and contrast, and see how things have improved.

"So I don't think it's a situation where anybody was caught off guard. I think it was just a case of getting perhaps more information. Obviously, Isaiah is in this league because he has heart and soul and a resolve that is almost unparalleled, and I believe him when he says he's gonna be back to 100 percent and I don't think anything that has been revealed to this point should make anyone think he won't."

Multiple sources told cleveland.com that as of Tuesday afternoon, Cleveland hasn't asked the Celtics for anything extra. ESPN is reporting that the two sides have begun to engage each other on a "solution."

Thomas' status for this season is important, as the Cavs will need a short-term fill-in for Irving and Thomas, the league's third-leading scorer last season, seemed to be a stellar fit.

He will be a free agent next summer, seeking a huge payday, which gives him plenty of reasons to not rush a return. All of it has to be taken into account by the Cavaliers.

But in the end, Griffin believes the Cavs and Celtics both have incentive to somehow get the agreed-upon trade to the finish line.

"I guess sometimes in these situations you think of it as mutually assured destruction," he said. "There's not a lot of upside to this deal coming undone, for either side. Because of that, I think it will end up going through as is. Hopefully, they'll be able to get Isaiah to a point where he's ready sooner than people think.

"One of the real blessings of this is Koby and his team don't need to be done (trading) at this point. They can continue to try to build the team. The value-to-production of Jae Crowder and his contract are incredible. As you move closer to the trade deadline, the assets they've acquired may be able to be put to work again in continuing to improve the team. I think they clearly wanted to get some sustainability so that lottery pick was really important because in the absence of LeBron (James) that's the piece that helps them rebuild rather quickly."

Cleveland.com's Joe Vardon contributed to this story.

That's pretty encouraging to me coming from someone no longer an employee and who didn't necessarily leave under great circumstances.

I think Thomas will end up being fine for the 2nd half of the season which is all that counts.

If that is true, the rest of the deal (as Griffin stated) is incredibly valuable.

It covers the Cavs - with or without Lebron going forward

(Didn't that last sentence make it sound like he thinks Lebron is gone?)

Continuing on with that assumption, it makes the deal even more perfect. Thomas and Crowder help huge this year, and the pick (they now have 2 first rounders next year) either gets them more young talent in trade or in the draft for the post Lebron era.

In addition they could deal Kevin Love for more young assets.

Yes, it would be a painful rebuild at that point but that's the thing now in pro sports. Tear it down to the bare bones and start there.

Interesting. I still believe it only matters if Thomas is ok by the January/Feb. Who needs him during the regular season?

Cleveland Cavaliers: Kevin Love, Jae Crowder, Q deal, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto


By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- I was talking to an NBA executive about the Cleveland Cavaliers situation.

He's another veteran NBA person who is astounded with Kyrie Irving wanting to be traded. Three trips to the NBA Finals and leading the team in shots per game was not enough to keep Irving content.

Irving averaged 25 points last season, the best of his six-year career.

So it's not as if Irving had to turn into another Foots Walker or John Bagley just to accommodate LeBron James.

Cavs fans know that story.

Then we began to talk about Kevin Love.

The player who had to make the biggest sacrifice after joining forces with LeBron James in Cleveland was not Irving.

It was Love.

His shots per game and scoring average went down from his All-Star seasons in Minnesota.

Chris Bosh said he gave up the most individually when he played with Dwyane Wade and James in Miami. He predicted Love would have to do the same with Irving and James in Cleveland.

That turned out to be the case.

Consider the following:

1. In Love's final season with Minnesota (2013-14), he averaged 26.1 points, 12.5 rebounds and took 18.5 shots per game.

2. In Love's last three seasons with the Cavs, he's averaged 17.0 points, 10.1 rebounds and 13.2 shots per game.

3. Love's best season with the Cavs was 2016-17. He averaged 19.0 points, 11.1 rebounds and 14.5 shots per game.

The player who could benefit the most by Irving being gone is Love.

In the five games where Love played and Irving sat last season, Love averaged 23.2 points and 12.0 rebounds.

In the last three years, when James and Love have played together when Irving sat, the Cavs are 25-10.

It's 24-7 in the last two seasons.

This is not claiming the Cavs are a better team without Irving.

But it is to point out how James and Love blended well together.

The record in the last three seasons in games where James sat but Irving and Love played?

The Cavs were 3-13.

My point is the Cavs can build a team around James and Love and still win a lot of games.