Cleveland Sports Forum

Carl Willis.

Ok so he was a couple decades ago. Wiley Willis sound almost the same
At least I didn't say Mel Harder.

Clearly plenty of problems for this year's team but if Clase had blown only 5 saves instead of 10 and Stephan and others had not lose a couple of the leads they gave away before the final innings, we would be right up there with the Twins.

MIN 73-67
CLE 67-74 +5 nonblown saves 72-69

another one of those hit after hit after hit innings for Clase. That made 3 bullpen losses in the past week. Frustrating.

Seems the players respond when they are not looking over their shoulders. Arias and Brennen have both responded when their competition was sent back to AAA.

Arias has been a suprisingly prolific power hitter. Still needs to come through much more often with RISP

Stat in a Hoynes story I think it was says we're 28th with RISP. That doesn't need homers, just timely singles.

I hope I am wrong, but I have been feeling all year that Tito has not been managing up to Tito standards. Questionable leaving in pitchers in too long, sticking with dead bats too long, not running for fear of "taking the bat out of Jose's hand. If we have speed we should use it.

Despite the fact that our entire opening day staff evaporated, our starting pitching has not been bad with the rookies. We haven't manufactured runs all year.

Sad year, and it will be hard to watch the balance of games.

Lost the entire rotation should have been a season killer but the starters have been replaced with collectively better results than last year's 5 [which included struggling Plesac and Civale]
Yet the bullpen has been dramatically worse
And the offense went from amazingly productive despite some of the stats to about as productive as the stats suggest
Jose has declined; Josh has leaped forward. Giminez has stopped hitting but is running better. Kwan is close to his 22 pace. Straw is better than his 22 pace Bo hits better than Hedges. Oscar was a surprise, followed by being a disaster. Amed hit the same, fielded worse and replacements have hit differently and fielded better. It doesn't sound like that all adds up a big falloff, but it has been.

Whatssamatter Clase?

Think he needs to take the rest of the season off.

civ ollilavad wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:53 pm Lost the entire rotation should have been a season killer but the starters have been replaced with collectively better results than last year's 5 [which included struggling Plesac and Civale]
Yet the bullpen has been dramatically worse

Going to push back a bit here. The old rotation, Bieber, Triston, Quantrill, Civale etc consistently pitched 6-7 innings minimum which took quite a bit of pressure OFF the bullpen - which this year was added back on. As promising as the 3 young kids are - they are not allowed to do that yet. Add in the Karinchak factor this year and fewer guys were asked to do more.

Clase was overused because the offense was so poor and so many close games resulted in his being necessary too often. In addition we got spoiled by Clase. He was not endlessly going to be repeating 2022. Look around MLB and relief pitching tends to be pretty damn fickle and closers are far from immune.

There is no way you lose effectively your top 3 starters - veterans - and not feel that. And it ripples throughout the staff.

Offensively there is no way you add a Josh Bell and Zunino and have them totally tank - along with Gimenez pretty well tanking the whole season and have the offense be unscathed.

And while Josh Naylor breaking out is a great thing we forget he did little the first month and a half to add to the problem. Kwan started slow too as did the annual Amed slow start.

A lot of things went wrong early on and did not work out as time went on.

Here the front office can be blamed for cutting it so close. They needed virtually all those pieces to click and most of them did not. The lack of depth in the lineup compounded the problem.

Excellent point about the added pressure on the bullpen from the rookie starters.

I certainly agree that the front office handled the offseason very badly. Zunino was a foolish signing.
Dealing both Benson and Jones after giving them very short major league trials was not smart: sure they could have both flatlined and sure neither may necessarily be as good as he is this year, but why rush them away? The return on Jones may be good [Brito looks like a fine hitter with more than a little power] but he's yet another infielder; the return for Benson looks terrible.

Super points on Benson and Jones. Look Jones is in Colorado and that helps any hitter. As well Benson is in a hitter heaven in Cincy. Time will tell there.

But what we really need is a REAL veteran hitter.

Meisel talked on his podcast about maybe dealing Bieber for a veteran hitter whom has similar contract status. A guy who is a good hitter but in his last contract year.

Someone who the team who has him is probably not going to re-sign. Like Bieber,

How about Josh Bell?

Tried and convicted. Besides I assume he picks up his player option and plays for the Marlins who will not want to trade him. (And Marlins pitching already loaded)

But sure someone like that.

Should be ready for the last week of the season; give Bibee and Williams an early winter vacation

Sept. 13: RHP Shane Bieber tosses 3 2/3 hitless frames in Akron
Bieber began his rehab assignment on Tuesday with Double-A Akron and gave up two runs (one earned) in 3 2/3 innings. He did not allow a hit, walked one batter, hit two and struck out four. Cleveland has not said what Bieber’s next step will be.

Sept. 13: RHP Triston McKenzie tosses three innings in Akron
Just 24 hours after Shane Bieber, McKenzie began his rehab assignment with a three-inning performance at Double-A Akron. He gave up one run on one hit with one walk and four strikeouts, while throwing 44 pitches. Like Bieber, the Guardians have yet to announce what the next step for McKenzie will be.