Cleveland Sports Forum

Actually the Tigers have hit really well this season. And if you look at their record which we just ruined...it was 9-7 before hitting the Tribe.

Incredibly weird that one team can own another to that crazy extent.

With Plutko sucking yesterday, THAT was the day for Detroit to strike back. And they did hit - but go figure - the Indians hit more.

It seems they may be ready to become one again in a couple years; lots of quality pitches getting close to the majors.

Jeff Passan of ESPN writes that Mike Clevinger would fall one day short of reaching four years of service time in the Indians keep him optioned at their alternate training site for 20 days.

This would delay his free agency by one year. It would be a quite the punishment for Clevinger, who initially misled his teammates about going out in Chicago on August 7. He actually boarded the team plane before the truth emerged. The Indians sit at 13-9 on the year, one game behind the Twins for first place in the AL Central. With expanded playoffs and the quality starting pitching they have, there's a real chance they could make a run this year. However, it's hard to imagine them getting there without Clevinger. It's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out and if this situation is even salvageable. Stay tuned.

Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that Zach Plesac would need to stay on an option for 18 days to have his service time impacted.

Plesac began the year on an option for two days, so he wouldn't get a full year of service time if he misses 18 more days. He was previously on track to potentially be a Super Two qualifier after the 2021 season, but this could delay his first go-around in arbitration until after the 2022 season. This is all hypothetical, as a new collective bargaining agreement could change the structure of things, but it shows that his demotion for breaking team protocols could have wide-ranging ramifications. Of course, the Indians could bring him and Mike Clevinger back soon and it could all be moot, but it's worth keeping an eye on.

According to Jeff Passan of ESPN, Indians reliever Oliver Perez threatened to opt out if the team brought back Mike Clevinger and Zach Plesac for their weekend series in Detroit.

Clevinger and Plesac were recently demoted after breaking team protocol and going out in Chicago on August 7. The episode -- which included Clevinger not being honest about his actions -- disappointed and angered many teammates. Perez threatened to opt out during a team meeting on Friday and shortstop Francisco Lindor was critical of the pitchers' actions. It's unclear when either will return or what their future could be with the team.

And now for something completely different! Did anyone else think of Pronk when Franmil got hit on the hand? As I remember, Pronk was having a killer year when he got hit, never did well after that.

5th starter needed Saturday against the Tigers. Logan Allen I guess will have to keep the streak going, or they could promote J Rodriguez, or go with a bullpen game.

in the Central:
1 1/2 behind the Twins
1 1/2 ahead of the Sox
4 ahead of the Tigers who are playing down to their level
5 ahead of the Royals

for the Wild Cards, since all 2nd place teams make the playoffs, the competition is for 2 spots among the rest of the teams; we are 2 games ahead of the 3rd place Orioles; 3 1/2 games ahead of the 3rd place Rangers

Excerpt from an article:

Look how Cleveland was built. Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon. Corey Kluber for Jake Westbrook, after they got Westbrook in a David Justice trade and he was a reliable starting pitcher.

Carlos Santana for Casey Blake. Trevor Bauer for Lars Anderson and others. Travis Hafner for Ryan Drese. Yan Gomes for nil. Mike Clevinger for Vinnie Pestano.

“The Indians empower their scouts and all the bright people they hire for the office and believe in them,” says former Indian assistant GM Derek Falvey, now the Twins’ president of baseball operations.

in Trade for Bauer Lars Anderson was a bit part; the main piece we gave was Choo in his final contract year. But it was still a great deal [we also got Bryan Shaw]. Here was the word on weird Trevor at that point in his career. The Dbacks at the time had a whole bunch of promising kid pitchers and they let all of them go. Indians at the time were thin on pitching depth which is hard to remember now.

"Much has been made of Bauer's struggles this past season in the major leagues—all 16 1/3 innings of them—for a guy who dominated the minor leagues and has frontline stuff. Bauer excelled in Triple-A, averaged 11.5 strikeouts per nine innings in the minors and has the upside of a No. 1 starter, a guy who could annually rank among the league leaders in strikeouts and contend for a Cy Young award.
Why did the Diamondbacks trade him? The relationship between team and pitcher deteriorated quickly. Bauer has worked out his own throwing and training program for years, and the Diamondbacks have said publicly they did not feel he was receptive to making changes they suggested.
The Diamondbacks' frustration is the Indians' gain. Bauer's fastball is a plus pitch that sits in the low-90s and touches 96, while his curveball is a wipeout offering that earns 70 grades on the 20-80 scale from some scouts. He rounds out his repertoire with a splitter, a slider and a changeup, all of which could be average or better pitches. Bauer does need better command, which got him into trouble once he reached Arizona, but his delivery is fine and he should be able to make improvements in that area. Bauer could start the year in Cleveland's rotation and might immediately be its best starting pitcher."

To me it shows just how long the Indians put up with Bauer - he had baggage the second he arrived. That's a damn long time to roster a starting pitcher whom made his own rules and got along with few including coaches/managers.

So it's not like Clevinger and Plesac are outliers. Stuff happens, especially with (starting) pitchers. IF they perform and are a contractual bargain, they stay and the team manages it and chugs along.

In Bauer's case they put up with it forever, only trading him when the contract situation was no longer a plus.

civ ollilavad wrote:in Trade for Bauer Lars Anderson was a bit part; the main piece we gave was Choo in his final contract year. But it was still a great deal [we also got Bryan Shaw]. Here was the word on weird Trevor at that point in his career. The Dbacks at the time had a whole bunch of promising kid pitchers and they let all of them go. Indians at the time were thin on pitching depth which is hard to remember now.

"Much has been made of Bauer's struggles this past season in the major leagues—all 16 1/3 innings of them—for a guy who dominated the minor leagues and has frontline stuff. Bauer excelled in Triple-A, averaged 11.5 strikeouts per nine innings in the minors and has the upside of a No. 1 starter, a guy who could annually rank among the league leaders in strikeouts and contend for a Cy Young award.
Why did the Diamondbacks trade him? The relationship between team and pitcher deteriorated quickly. Bauer has worked out his own throwing and training program for years, and the Diamondbacks have said publicly they did not feel he was receptive to making changes they suggested.
The Diamondbacks' frustration is the Indians' gain. Bauer's fastball is a plus pitch that sits in the low-90s and touches 96, while his curveball is a wipeout offering that earns 70 grades on the 20-80 scale from some scouts. He rounds out his repertoire with a splitter, a slider and a changeup, all of which could be average or better pitches. Bauer does need better command, which got him into trouble once he reached Arizona, but his delivery is fine and he should be able to make improvements in that area. Bauer could start the year in Cleveland's rotation and might immediately be its best starting pitcher."

And yes it was a great deal. We wanted to unload Choo. And he ended up getting a highly regretable long term deal after leaving!

I do believe Choo to Cincy, and Didi Gregorious to Arizona (from Cincy) were primary pieces. Strangely resembling Bauer last season to Cincy, top minor leaguer to SD and Franmil + to us.

It was strange how the 2 Bauer deals have similarities.
Surprising to me that Choo is still a big league regular. A good player and stayed healthy. Age 37; 1660 hits, 216 homers, 863 walks, 154 steals. Career splits: 275/377/447. Nice career.

[His best years were in Cleveland: 292/383/469 and then his 1 year + with the Reds 285/423/462]
I'll take 10 more years of Reyes and maybe get lucky with Allen or Moss.

Oh yeah, he ended up having a solid career - albeit with a lot of injuries after he left Cleveland.

So really he was just drastically overpaid. And that contract is part of the reason he's still around. He still is a useful bat and too expensive to just cut.

Like Pronk became for us.

Nearly half way through this mini-season Bieber is easily the AL Cy Young winner and Bauer probably No. 1 in NL

From Sabathia to Lee to Kluber this team has been a Cy Young hotspot. 2007-2008-2014-2017