Cleveland Sports Forum

The Guardians changed their hitting philosophy over the winter, making sure they’re impacting the ball rather than simply making contact to put the ball in play.

New Manager must have had something to do with that. Do we now blame Tito for the 2023 lack of offense?

This hitting thing is a joke. Individual guys like Kwan and Brennen are looking to go deeper when the count or the situation is in their favor. I think you might be able to look at the weather as more of a factor than philosophy.

Francona was guilty of going way too far with guys and lineups,

rusty - don't forget the jury is still out but it does seem the renovations to the stadium have made a bit of a jet stream effect on balls hit deep to right field.

Guardians’ trade deadline priorities: Targets could include starting pitcher, shortstop NEW YORK, NY - APRIL 17: Luis Severino #40 of the New York Mets reacts against the Pittsburgh Pirates during the fifth inning at Citi Field on April 17, 2024 in New York City. The Mets won 9-1. (Photo by Adam Hunger/Getty Images)
By Zack Meisel
6h ago



CLEVELAND — The Cleveland Guardians’ 37-19 start has been part inexplicable, part mesmerizing. They have survived a season-ending injury to their ace, Shane Bieber, and the monthlong absence of their all-world leadoff hitter, Steven Kwan. They have yet to benefit from the 6-foot-6 presence of potential frontline starter Gavin Williams.

And yet, such a sterling start should force their front office into action this summer. There are two months until the trade deadline — and 11 teams within four games of the .500 mark, so plenty of time to sort out who will buy and who will sell — but there’s no need to wait to determine what the Guardians might seek to upgrade and the deliberations that figure to take place.
Priority No. 1: Starting pitching

The obstacle: It’ll be many contenders’ top priority, and it’s a scarce commodity.

Imagine the organization known for its starting pitching factory, which churns out capable hurlers year after year, desperately needing to trade for a starting pitcher to solidify its standing as an American League contender. Cleveland’s starters rank last in the majors with 1.3 fWAR, another reason their record is some blend of bewildering and beyond impressive. Any guess as to which Guardians pitcher sits atop the team’s fWAR leaderboard, alongside Tanner Bibee?

It’s Bieber, who hasn’t pitched since April 2.

The club hopes to get Williams back in a couple of weeks, but he’ll have spent three months recovering from an elbow injury. That’s a lengthy enough absence to make any executive nervous while watching him pitch. Ben Lively has exceeded every expectation, which, perhaps unfair to him, makes you question the sustainability of his performance. His metrics don’t paint the most encouraging picture. Bibee, Triston McKenzie and Logan Allen are all searching, to varying degrees, for their form from past years. Bieber is out for the season. Carlos Carrasco is 37. Xzavion Curry has been shaky. Joey Cantillo is only now beginning a rehab assignment after missing two months with a hamstring injury.

This is a group that would benefit from any sort of talent infusion, whether an innings-eating rental (Yusei Kikuchi of the Toronto Blue Jays? Luis Severino or Sean Manaea of the New York Mets?), an ace with multiple years of control (Jesús Luzardo of the Miami Marlins or Kevin Gausman of the Blue Jays?) or something in between (Paul Blackburn or J.P. Sears of the Oakland Athletics? Tyler Anderson of the Los Angeles Angels?). If a starting pitcher proves too elusive to acquire, maybe the Guardians can convert their Super Pen — their 2.54 bullpen ERA is far and away the best in the majors — into a Super Duper Pen by dealing for the top available reliever.

It’s worth mentioning that Cleveland’s front office tends to first target players with long-term control, and there could be concerns about the club’s starting pitching depth next season, too. That said, not only will starting pitching be pricy from a prospects standpoint, but acquiring an established veteran would require ownership to get uncomfortable. Let’s discuss that for a second.

The Guardians feature one of the league’s lowest payrolls (roughly $100 million, with about one-third of that assigned to four players — Bieber, Myles Straw, Ramón Laureano and Jean Segura — who are not part of the roster). They pinned their offseason inactivity on their uncertain TV deal (which they ultimately sorted out, settling on a revenue arrangement not too dissimilar from the one they had originally anticipated). Their attendance increased by 41 percent last season and is off to a healthy start this year. This is not the time for ownership to stand in the way. A 37-19 start is not the norm. This group has earned the right for upper management to invest in it by bolstering the roster with some helpful pieces. OK, time to step down from the soapbox.
Priority No. 2: Shortstop
After a rough start, Bo Bichette is batting .295 in May. (Tim Nwachukwu / Getty Images)

The obstacle: There remain a bunch of internal options to sort through.

Imagine the organization that stockpiles young shortstops needing to trade for one to shore up the greatest deficiency in its lineup as it embarks on a pennant chase.

Neither Gabriel Arias nor Brayan Rocchio has convinced the organization to call off the search for a long-term partner for Andrés Giménez in the middle infield. Cleveland’s shortstops rank 27th in the majors with a 64 wRC+. (In simple terms, they’ve created runs at a rate 36 percent below league average. In even simpler terms, they’ve had a rough go at the plate.) The only teams with worse production at shortstop are the Marlins (62 wRC+), Athletics (59) and Detroit Tigers (40! Good grief, Javier Báez).

The only encouraging sign offensively for Cleveland’s shortstops is that Rocchio is drawing walks at a healthy rate. He hasn’t hit, though. Arias has one home run, three walks and 35 strikeouts in 112 plate appearances. He has whittled down the three true outcomes to one.

So eventually, maybe they could turn to José Tena, Angel Martínez, Daniel Schneemann or Juan Brito. Or they could survey the trade market so they aren’t running experiments at a key position while positioning themselves for a playoff run. Would the Blue Jays dangle Bo Bichette, who is signed through 2025? Would the Angels move Luis Rengifo, whom the Guardians have coveted in the past?

Some of the internal candidates should be on the block this summer, either because they’re part of a trade to acquire help at a different position or because the team acquired a more stable presence at shortstop, leaving them with nowhere to play. Another thing to keep in mind: The Guardians own the No. 1 draft pick in July plus the largest draft pool, so they’ll be able to replenish their system if they swing some trades.
Priority No. 3: Outfielder … or any position, really

The obstacle: Which type of outfielder is the best fit?

When Kwan returns from the injured list in the coming days (or hours), Estevan Florial seems like the odd man out. Florial has eight plate appearances (and zero hits) in the past two weeks. Then the question becomes how manager Stephen Vogt will divvy up playing time in right field among Will Brennan, Johnathan Rodríguez and the Cooperstown-bound David Fry. Fry’s ability to shift to the corner outfield, corner infield and catcher has been vital for Vogt.

When Kyle Manzardo and/or Bo Naylor sit against lefties, that opens up at-bats for Rodríguez or a potential trade acquisition. And because of Fry’s versatility (he can slide to catcher against lefties), a new addition’s position isn’t all that important. They could target a Brandon Guyer/Ryan Raburn/Jordan Luplow type who feasts on southpaws. That shouldn’t be too difficult to execute. Or perhaps Rodríguez will thrive in that role for the next two months or Manzardo will prove he can handle lefties. This isn’t as obvious of a fit, but because of their flexibility, they don’t really need to limit themselves when seeking another hitter who can help.

No way the Guardians trade for an infielder !

It seems like a pretty strange suggestion for a team brimming with them throughout the organization; granted none is yet of Major League Lindor quality

Guardians Designate Estevan Florial For Assignment
By Steve Adams | May 31, 2024 at 1:42pm CDT

The Guardians have designated outfielder Estevan Florial for assignment, tweets Zack Meisel of The Athletic. His spot on the roster will go to outfielder Steven Kwan, who’s been reinstated from the injured list and is back in the Cleveland lineup tonight.

Acquired from the Yankees in a December swap that sent right-hander Cody Morris back to New York, the out-of-options Florial won a spot on Cleveland’s Opening Day roster but has yet to hit with his new club. The once-vaunted prospect has appeared in 36 games with the Guards and tallied 111 plate appearances while mustering only a .173/.264/.367 slash. Florial has shown some extra-base pop, with three homers, six doubles and a pair of triples, but he’s also gone down on strikes in a staggering 36.9% of his plate appearances.

Strikeout woes are nothing new for Florial, who’s now punched out in 33.5% of his 245 big league plate appearances. Even as Florial put up gaudy numbers in Triple-A with the Yankees organization in 2022-23, he did so while fanning in three out of every ten trips to the plate. The Yankees largely left him in Triple-A to try to sort through his lack of contact skills, but it’s not a flaw that Florial has been able to overcome to this point.

Florial’s combination of power and speed has long been tantalizing, but he’s now a .192/.291/.329 hitter in the big leagues who can’t be sent to the minors without first clearing waivers. Another club that’s not in contention could perhaps afford to take a flier and place a waiver claim, but it’d be hard for any team with postseason aspirations to give Florial any kind of meaningful playing time when he’s clearly a project. The Guardians will have a week to try to trade him, pass him through outright waivers, or release him. If he clears outright waivers, Florial can reject the assignment and elect free agency by virtue of the fact that he’s been outrighted once in the past (with the Yankees in April 2023).

It is now even more obvious than at the end of spring training that Dayvison delosSantos is the guy they should have retained.
Clearly not ready for the majors from day one, but unlike Florial he was and is still developing

Went back to the Dbacks and back to AA where all he did was hit

372/426/696
and has just been promoted to AAA where he's had 35 at bats hitting 286/342/429

And he's only 20 years old
It is possible that he will join Junior Caminero as one of the top bats of the next decade.
On the other hand, he still lacks a clear defensive position and strikes out far too much
But I sure would have preferred to give him a chance with the Guardians.

So if he was still on the team who would you be eliminating ? My guess it would be him. So it worked out exactly the same.

Probably JRod. I know if we had kept DLS he would have not played much. It would have been a less punitive version of the the old old rules where "bonus babies" had to retained on the major league roster for at least one if not two years immediately after they signed.

civ ollilavad wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 10:44 am

The Guardians changed their hitting philosophy over the winter, making sure they’re impacting the ball rather than simply making contact to put the ball in play.

New Manager must have had something to do with that. Do we now blame Tito for the 2023 lack of offense?

Civ, I know Tito was a marvelous manager for the IndGuards and he was, but the Guards are mostly the same team as in 2022 and now they are playing like it as well with some additional pop. Tito's season long exit had to affect the players more than was realized. The uncertainty can weigh on young players. The Guards were caught in no mans land, with a lame duck manager and no clear successor.

I tend to agree with Dennis here. At the very least Vogt has to have injected an energy that Tito lacked at the very end. Look it's pretty obvious that
Antonetti intended Vogt to be very much like Tito yet younger and with new energy.

From The Athletic power rankings

T-5. Cleveland Guardians
Record: 36-18
Last Power Ranking: 6

Statistical superlative: Biggest difference in BaseRuns winning percentage https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.a ... n=BaseRuns

BaseRuns is a stat that takes a team’s basic hitting and pitching events — singles allowed, singles hit, stolen bases for, stolen bases against, et cetera — and puts them into a blender. What comes out is a slurry that approximates the expected winning percentage for a team that has all of those baseball events. It’s not perfect, but it’s helpful.

According to BaseRuns, the Guardians aren’t just winning more than they probably should be — they’re lapping the rest of baseball with eight extra wins. They’re getting (and preventing) hits at the right time.

Should you care about this if you’re a Guardians fan? Oh, heck no. Flip double birds at the numbers and laugh until this all stops, which doesn’t have to happen. They don’t have to give these wins back, you know. And the wins they’ve already collected might have been enough to get them a division title. — Brisbee

The valuable lesson the Cleveland Guardians learned last year and how it should help at trade deadline ANAHEIM, CALIFORNIA - MAY 24: Josh Naylor #22 of the Cleveland Guardians celebrates hitting a home run during the fourth inning against the Los Angeles Angels at Angel Stadium of Anaheim on May 24, 2024 in Anaheim, California. (Photo by Katelyn Mulcahy/Getty Images)
By Jason Lloyd
4h ago

16
Save Article

Stop calling this a hot start. It’s not. By the end of the weekend, 40 percent of the season will be complete. We’re well beyond this being a mirage. The Cleveland Guardians are contenders. Full stop.

Since the wild-card era began, 24 teams prior to this season won at least 40 of their first 60 games, according to Stathead. Twenty-two of them reached the playoffs. Ten went to the World Series and seven of them won it. The most recent example was last year when the Texas Rangers turned a 40-20 start into a championship.

Based on the last 30 years of data, 92 percent of teams in Cleveland’s position reached the postseason.

The fascinating part of all of this is how the Guardians got here. I had quite a few conversations over the offseason and during spring training with various team officials about a payroll hovering around $100 million. There was the whole television contract fiasco with Diamond Sports that was out of their control, but it felt like there should have been more room in the budget than what was spent.

I wanted to write about the payroll in a thoughtful way — not necessarily hammer them, but not give them a pass for not spending, either. Ultimately, I held off on writing anything. I wanted to give them a chance and see what this season looked like. The Guardians’ most miserable season is typically the offseason when they get crushed all winter for not spending. Then a new season begins and they’re often hovering near the top of the standings again while the payroll talk dissipates until next winter.
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When last season ended, Guardians executives felt they’d missed badly on players like Nolan Jones and Will Benson. This isn’t an organization that can spend multiple years developing hitters, only to watch them flourish elsewhere after moving on too quickly. The Guardians have to be right on their own players. Every time. The 40-man roster crunch of the last few years and the inability to swing a big trade have expedited decisions on some players that otherwise would be stretched over more years.

It’s important to note both Benson and particularly Jones have been unable to duplicate their breakout seasons from last year. Benson’s OPS is 120 points lower than where he finished last season, and Jones has been both injured and unproductive when in the lineup. Nevertheless, one of the great lessons from last season was to make sure the Guardians get it right on their own guys.

After the surprise breakout season of 2022, they chose to get aggressive and dipped back into free agency to upgrade the offense. The signings of Mike Zunino and Josh Bell were disasters. Even though he’s long gone, Bell’s contract remains a contributing reason why 20 percent of this year’s payroll isn’t even on the roster. Add in Shane Bieber’s contract and one-third of the Guardians’ thin payroll is being spent on guys who aren’t here — and this team is still on pace to win 108 games.
go-deeper

GO DEEPER

MLB Power Rankings: A new No. 1 arrives; our picks for first-time All-Star noms

Although they may not play the same position, one official told me during spring training the signing of Bell was part of the reason they “missed” on Jones. I don’t know that I agree completely, but I understood the sentiment. There are only so many spots on the 40-man and active rosters.

So this offseason was a focused effort to avoid free agency and return to the kids. It wasn’t a great class of hitters anyway, which is partly why they went to two years with Bell. They were trying to get in front of a bear market. Instead, they got eaten by the bear.

The valuable lesson remained: Don’t move on from guys too quickly, only to watch Gabriel Arias or Will Brennan flourish elsewhere. Much like two years ago, it has worked better than anyone could’ve realistically expected.

David Fry is one of the best stories in baseball. Tyler Freeman appears to be settling in as an outfielder. Kyle Manzardo looks comfortable now at the plate. The Guardians spent this week in the top 10 in home runs and flirting with the top 10 in team OPS.
go-deeper

GO DEEPER

David Fry's journey from PTBNL to driving force behind the Guardians' 40-20 start

But there are still concerns, particularly with the starting rotation and at shortstop. Neither Arias nor Brayan Rocchio has separated himself at the position, which is where this gets complicated.

This team is worth investing in at the trade deadline. There are years, like last year, when moving prospects for rentals feels like throwing good money at a losing hand. This feels different. The division is theirs to win, and while the Yankees have been terrific, there is a path out of the American League and into the World Series.
Catcher David Fry is one of several players delivering big for the Guardians this season. (David Richard / USA Today)

Which is how all of this goes back to payroll. Money should not be the obstacle that prevents the Guardians from a big swing at the trade deadline.

The league supplements a large portion of Cleveland’s payroll. I never could nail down an exact percentage or figure because teams and the league office protect their books like they’re nuclear codes.

There are multiple revenue streams from the commissioner’s office that the Guardians qualify to receive. The first is the general revenue sharing that is covered by Article 24 of the collective bargaining agreement. It is intentionally written to confuse Harvard law graduates, so you and I have no chance at following which shell the cash is under. But we know it’s there.

The second is every team’s share of central revenues. That is divided among all 30 teams.

The third, and this year the most impactful, is the Guardians’ share of the collective bargaining tax, which is based on last year’s record-setting $210 million paid out by the league’s eight tax-paying teams. Of that $210 million, about half goes to player benefits and retirement accounts. The other half is put into a supplemental commissioner’s discretionary fund and dispersed among revenue-sharing teams at the commissioner’s discretion. So again, it’s impossible to know how much the teams get. But Cleveland is one of the markets that qualifies.

A fourth revenue stream, and the smallest, is the commissioner’s discretionary fund. A total of $10 million to $15 million is taken from the central fund and redistributed by the commissioner — you guessed it, at his discretion — to small-market teams. How much the Guardians get and how many teams are included remains buried under the Pentagon and guarded by British Beefeaters.

Regardless of the final numbers, the Guardians are getting a decent-sized check from the league and they still ultimately received most of their television revenue, too. None of that takes into account an attendance surge the last couple of years. Some of it is a gimmick, like the $50 monthly season pass, but something is better than nothing. It’s still consumers in seats eating hot dogs and drinking beers and purchasing hats and jerseys. So if a Bo Bichette or Kevin Gausman or Danny Jansen or Randy Arozarena or Tyler O’Neill or Jesus Luzardo becomes available at the trade deadline next month, salary should not be an impediment to swing big.

The Orioles are probably going shopping for another starter. Perhaps the Dodgers, too. Both have farm systems deeper and richer than the Guardians and will likely jump the line on any pitchers made available at the deadline. But money this time shouldn’t be an issue.

There is urgency to upgrade a team poised to win right now. Josh Naylor is under team control for only this year and next. Triston McKenzie is down to two years of control after this season. Steven Kwan will be arbitration-eligible beginning next year.

The clock spins fast in baseball and even faster in places like Cleveland, where the conversation of when to trade proven pieces nearing free agency is always looming. Pounce when the opportunity is real.

Their record and the last 30 years indicate this team is legitimate. Opportunity isn’t just knocking this summer, it’s beating on the hinges like Naylor holding a Marucci. Let it in.

Memories of Cleveland’s infamous 10-cent Beer Night, 50 years on: Ted Diadiun
Updated: Jun. 09, 2024, 1:16 p.m.|Published: Jun. 09, 2024, 5:47 a.m.



The 50th anniversary of 10 Cent Beer Night is Tuesday, June 4. We talk to a few of the people who were at Cleveland Municipal Stadium and detail what happened on that fateful night.

The Plain Dealer’s Page One coverage the following day included two headline decks across six columns – space usually reserved for monumental news stories and milestones. (The Plain Dealer)The Plain Dealer





By Ted Diadiun, cleveland.com
Take me out to the riot

Let us drink, drink, drink, for the home team,

If they don’t win, we’re to blame.

For it’s beer in a cup, at 10 cents a pop

At the old ball game.

CLEVELAND -- Stories abounded last week here and elsewhere marking Tuesday’s 50th anniversary of the memorable 10-cent Beer Night at Municipal Stadium. Some of them cranked out the old saw speculating that, while the official attendance had been 25,134, in the retelling, the number of people who claimed they were there that night would total many times that.


Well, I was there, and I’ve got the bylines to prove it.

Actually, for a while, I seemed to have a knack for showing up at lots of sports events that produced bizarre storylines.

I was at Cleveland Browns Stadium on what has come to be called “Bottlegate,” after the regrettable practice some people have of appending “-gate” to any infamous news story. It was Dec. 16, 2001, in a loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars: The day Cleveland fans solidified their reputation for losing their minds, expressing their disappointment with the officials by pelting them and anyone else in range with plastic bottles – causing a 20-minute delay before the last 40-some seconds of the game could be completed.


I was at old Municipal Stadium not long before Beer Night for a nondescript game against Kansas City, when The Great Wallenda strung a tightrope high above the infield and took a pregame stroll across. The umpires laughingly, or so we thought, created a new ground rule that on the minuscule chance of any ball hitting the wire, it would be a ground rule double. And of course, the Indians’ Vada Pinson defied the odds with a routine infield pop-up that hit the wire for a two-bagger (it still looks like a line drive in the scorebook, as they say).

And I was at the game at which a mouthy fan made fun of Albert Belle’s drinking problem: “Keg party at my house, Joey!” Belle drilled the guy in the chest with a baseball so hard that you could see the stitches of the ball in the bruise on his chest. I didn’t see it – but I wrote about it, congratulating Albert on his aim, and suggesting that the fan had it coming.

Speaking of having it coming – back to Beer Night.


The Indians had gotten into a brawl with Manager Billy Martin and his Texas Rangers down in Texas just a week before, and the late radio gabber Pete Franklin had gotten the sporting populace all riled up for the Rangers’ visit to Cleveland. I was a sportswriter for the Lake County News-Herald, but was just there as a fan with my brother and my college roommate, to drink some horrible 3.2 beer and see what would happen.

To the surprise of nobody familiar with the mix of lots of alcohol and sports fanaticism, what happened was pandemonium.

Early on, the fans behind the Rangers third-base dugout were trading what appeared to be good-natured barbs with Martin and the players, at least from my perch in the first row of the upper deck along the first-base line. At one point, Martin waved a white towel in mock surrender.


But while the crowd started out rowdy but controlled, as the beer flowed, it got worse.

A woman ran out and kissed home plate umpire Nestor Chylak. Streakers streaked. People ran out on the field and were chased down by security. Fans threw hot dogs and beer at the players on the field.

Sometime after about the sixth inning, the activity around the Rangers dugout turned ugly. Fans climbed on the roof and started pounding, as Martin seethed. At one point he leaped out of the dugout, scooped up a handful of gravel from the warning track, and whipped it into the crowd behind the dugout. That really kicked things off.

Fans started throwing more than just hotdogs. A guy ran down the aisle next to me with one of those old stubby beer bottles stuffed between two paper cups, and fired the missile far out onto the field.


He went back for more ammo and the next time he came down, I threw out my arm to stop him and hit him in the chest. He was a big guy, and as he looked blearily at me, I thought the next thing to go over the side might be me. But he just headed a couple of sections away and threw more missiles toward the field.

I’ve seen it written that the Indians were charging toward a game-winning rally at the end. But from my memory, the Rangers had the game under control heading into the bottom of the ninth inning with a 5-3 lead, and it was the crazies who kick-started the comeback.

As bottles, chairs and anything else the fans could get their hands on rained down on the field, the Rangers pitcher got understandably rattled and the Indians tied the game at 5-5, before Chylak, the umpire crew chief, rightfully ended it with a forfeit.


I had my press pass with me, and as it became clear that things were going to end badly, I went over to the press box and offered to help Hank Kozloski, who was covering the game for the News-Herald. So I wound up doing stories from the umpires’ room and the visiting clubhouse. I saw longtime Plain Dealer baseball writer Paul Hoynes in there, then working for the Painesville Telegraph, who also started the night as a fan but quickly kicked into work mode, too.

I’ll never forget Chylak, a decorated veteran of the Battle of the Bulge, raging as blood ran down his temple from where he had been hit by a chair: “Those people were animals!” he said. “The last time I saw animals like that was in the zoo! The zoo!”

Martin, in the post-game lockerroom, was in barely controlled fury, describing why he grabbed a bat and led his team out to rescue his right fielder, Jeff Burroughs, who was being surrounded by fans:


“You’re damn right I thought somebody was going to be very badly hurt, that’s why we went out after Jeff.”

Then, as I wrote for the next day’s paper, Martin poured himself a mug of beer and studied the innocent-looking white foam that started it all: “It’s a sad day when a bunch of drunks can run on the field and make a team win or lose,” he said. “It looks like the fans just can’t handle beer night. It’s a real shame.”

A vignette I haven’t seen anywhere else came from onetime Indians catcher Duke Sims, who along with Texas teammates Joe Lovitto and Rich Billings had gone out to explore the town the night before.

Along the way, they met a young woman who claimed to be a witch and predicted that they would all be killed the following night.


“We all laughed at her,” said a shaken Lovitto in the post-beer-night lockerroom. “But after this, maybe I won’t laugh too hard at anyone who tells me she’s a witch. She wasn’t too far off, was she?”

Ted Diadiun is a member of the editorial board of cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer.