My only point here is that I do not expect a Sale-type return nor do I think the Indians actually do. Opening stance.

If a deal gets done somewhere in the rotation, and I think it will, I do not expect it to be Sale-esque. I do think Verdugo (or Senzel for example on the Reds) and a good reliever is more the type of thing that's realistic.

If they do better than that I'll be thrilled.

TFIR: are you assuming a Kipnis dump as part of that deal or just Kluber straight up?

What I dread is that they wait and wait and wait and then turn to the cheapest least valuable OF available the day before spring training opens like the winter 2011-12 when they watched 1st baseman sign until they took on the useless Casey Kotchman who produced an amazing 612 OPS. That's about the level that our current crop of outfielders is probably going to achieve unless we get very fortunate.

Does anybody think the Yankees would do Andujar, one of their relievers, and Frazier for Kluber? Still would have Kipnis but it would mean he might have to play OF.

I think the Indians are about done. No more trades unless they put money back in Dolan's pockets. If they just dump more salary, they obviously don't care about getting better. When you're 0-7 in your last 7 playoff games, fix what's wrong.

Dolan and the boys will play with what they have and pray for luck.

Another Day, another Dollar Saved.

civ ollilavad wrote:TFIR: are you assuming a Kipnis dump as part of that deal or just Kluber straight up?

Those are assuming just Kluber, no Kip dump. They would be dumb to dump Kipnis at this point IMO. IT would kill any return by dealing him at his low point of value.

With the dire straits they are in - if it were me - I would pick up a Dozier or a Moustakas, and move Kip to the outfield.

loufla wrote:Does anybody think the Yankees would do Andujar, one of their relievers, and Frazier for Kluber? Still would have Kipnis but it would mean he might have to play OF.

I don't think that would be out of the question personally. Especially if they are after Machado.

I can only hope that Kipnis 2019 performance does not diminish his value further.

But then to relieve the worry that we are stuck with a shadow of the Jason Kipnis we enjoyed earlier in the decade, I took a look at his 2018 splits and his steady yearlong progression maybe tells me I don't want to trade him after all:

April 178/254/243 497 awful
May 221/311/365 676 bad
June 266/333/443 776 quite acceptable
July 237/333/421 754 OK, not completely steady progression, but good enough
Aug 253/356/425 782 back on the ascendant
Sept 247/318/494 812 power surge

Now that I'm happy with Jason I suppose they'll trade him away.

was anyone aware that Kipnis hit into no doubleplays in 2017 and only 5 last year?

Which relates to his great increase in fly balls to ground balls:

From left to right: ground balls, fly balls, line drives

210 100 152 in 2015
188 127 153 in 2016
100 99 66 in 2017
141 159 113 in 2018

Kipnis is a Major League player. Only problem was his contract. Tribe has dumped salary elsewhere. Might as well keep him now.

Maybe only the bottom 3 of the batting order are problems,, not the bottom 5

That is why I say to hit the market where there is a glut. Infield. And move Kip to outfield and that solves 2 issues.

I remember an interview with Kip after a game and he said it was too late for his numbers to look pretty but he felt he had turned a corner. civ's monthly numbers bear that out.

I'm getting antsy. Spring training opens in 5 weeks.

looking backward, we signed Encarnacion on 12-22 and the next year Alonso on 12-23. Closer to Spring Training last year were Rajai Davis 2-17 and Cabrera not until 4-26. Plenty of names still out there so if they're interested they have time to make deals.