Just to give you an idea of what I mean ... the Nationals just traded for the Royals closer, Herrera. They gave up 3 minor leaguers for him. 2 were prospects. But none of the three were among their top prospects. And Herrera is a darn fine closer.

That's why I say Bowden is nuts. You can get a good set up man or two without parting with your top prospects. That's why he's doing TV now.

It's all in the contract HB - you know that. That's what made Miller so valuable in addition to his studness.

This is Herrara's walk year which greatly diminishes his value. Total rental.

Go back to my post on their contracts. They are stellar contracts and the pitchers are young.

Look it will never happen - but I am just saying it's always the contracts.

Fair enough, that's a good point. But I also say we have enough talented pieces to deal that we wouldn't have to give Mejia or a top guy.

Look, you may like Gomes and all, but he is no Francisco Mejia. Mejia was rated by MLB Pipeline as the best catching prospect in baseball this past February. Andre Knott was interviewing Jose Ramirez this past spring training and asked him who the best hitter on the team was, and he said Francisco Mejia.

I'm not trading him for a set up guy. Under contract or not.

Absolutely get that and there are other pieces perhaps sent with Bieber could get it done.

By the way about Gomes I love his defense but it's not me...the team loves his defense. For a catcher and a pitching staff it's huge and it's pretty clear Tito and the staff value it highly. Otherwise probably Mejia would already be up and playing. I think that's why. They highly value (over value?) his defense.

Yeah, my last post came out wrong. Gomes is a good catcher. Indians know it, you know it, I know it, Jonathon LuCroy knows it. But Mejia has a chance to be special. That’s what I mean. And I’m not proposing replacing Gomes with Mejia yet. I’m proposing replacing Perez with him.

Herrera went for No. 10 and 11 prospects and a 17=year-old. That's not a steep price at all. On the Indians list that would be Greg Allen and Aaron Civale and someone in the Arizona league.

Future free agent... How much would you have given up for another reliever that would be a free agent ?

I'd probably give up that much. Although Oliver Perez came at a much more affordable price and couldn't be doing any better than he has. For awhile anyway.

Again rusty has a great point.

These are always ALL about the contract - if a guy is on an expiring contract like Herrera his value is drastically reduced. The Herrera trade as a comparison point is silly because of that issue. By the way, Washington is a wealthier team that might even consider extending Herrera which we could not afford.

Especially, especially for the Indians..... there is no way at all they trade for a guy on an expiring contract unless they are paying with low level prospects. It is just not worth their while.

Look at the Andrew Miller trade for a reference point of what the Tribe would like to do. Great reliever, great contract = high level prospect(s). For multiple years of control after this year.

Iglesias and Garrett are on borderline awesome contracts. Total different ballgame. By the way add in that the Indians have both Allen AND Miller in their walk years and that Jim Bowden deal looks much different.

That all said yes I agree with HB that Bieber (they might want McKenzie?) and a couple other very good prospects might do it as well without Mejia.

Look at Iglesias deal similar to Miller trade then. Iglesias was not as dominate but is under contract.

Frazier - Zimmer
Sheffield - Plutko

We can easily include Merritt in any deal. ... We could easily include Allen instead of Zimmer. ... We can easily trade Gonzalez or Yandy in any deal. .... We can easily include Chang or Castro in any deal. ... We can easily include a good AA starter in any deal. ... These are all guys who have good value. And are all expendable for us right now.

We have plenty to offer to get a couple good set up men without giving up our top 3 prospects, which Bieber, Mejia, and McKenzie are right this minute, IMO.

Miller and Allen are both free agents and we could use a couple guys under contract next year so if they do include Bieber or McKenzie I guess I can understand but I wouldn't.

Just don't want to go back to the Mark Shapiro days where we constantly overrated our prospects. Then our prospects fizzled and we were left with nothing.

Window is closing.

You and civ know way more then I do about our minor leaguers but Sheffield = Plutko??

I do think they would do it for Zimmer and Bieber/McKenzie.

Ahhh, the trade deadline time of year.

At the time Sheffield was traded he wasn't a top prospect. Kaminsky was rated ahead of him. I follow the guys closely so I liked him but he wasn't rated high like McKenzie.

Look, sick of arguing over this crap. If the Indians trade a stud catcher prospect or stud SP prospect for a set up man they are f'n stupid. I don't care if the guy is signed for 10 years. Simple as that. Go trade for another Joe Smith if you have to. There are plenty to choose from. Stud catching and SP prospects are not.

I agree: Sheffield was a much more better prospect than Plutko is. Justus was a far higher draft pick and had a far higher prospect ceiling.
Frazier and Zimmer would be closer.
I also agree with HB: we have a surplus of good SS who could be valuable pieces in a deal.
I don't think anyone wants to deal for Chiang but Civale is a decent prospect although not quite up to Bieber level.

There's definitely some useful depth but I don't think anyone besides Mejia or McKenzie will draw great interest

Interesting excerpt from article I just posted relates to this:

The Nationals assumed the approximately $4.45 million remaining of Herrera’s $7.9375 million salary, enabling them to part with lesser prospects.

Kind of interesting actually as I would have thought it would be automatic that the team would of course take on remaining salary.

Like the Tribe did with Miller.

In the article there was some interesting possibilities that went down on this trade.