Defense is very much team oriented. They have many new faces. Have had guys playing new positions and out of position. It will take a bit of time to gel.

And for these guys to take regular season games seriously. Once games really mean something you'll see them look more like team that beat Boston.

Which leads to the ultimate question ?

How is Boston doing it ?

At the beginning of the season the Cavs had 5 players in their top 8 that had played 3 years together. James, Love, Thompson, JR Smith and Shumpert. Which left Wade (played for years with LeBron), Rose, Green, and Korver. No excuse for no effort on the defensive end. Teams follow the leader...

Boston is well coached for sure, and always gives good effort.

Cavs play when they want, like tonight, almost beating Rockets in Houston. Beating Celtics, Wizards, Bucks twice. But often play like they don't care, as evidenced by their losses to Knicks, Nets, Magic, Pacers, etc.

I do think they'll figure out positions and rotations they like and play better D later on when they give a damn. D cannot get any worse though so that's easy to say.

Hillbilly wrote:Boston is well coached for sure, and always gives good effort.

Cavs play when they want, like tonight, almost beating Rockets in Houston. Beating Celtics, Wizards, Bucks twice. But often play like they don't care, as evidenced by their losses to Knicks, Nets, Magic, Pacers, etc.

I do think they'll figure out positions and rotations they like and play better D later on when they give a damn. D cannot get any worse though so that's easy to say.

Hey rusty and HB

I do think there's a lot of wisdom in what you both are saying.

rusty - teams follow their leader. You may not have meant it the way I do, but I agree. Look, deep down, the team is a VERY veteran team. They all know, and Lebron has said it, it is waaaay early. They could be 4th seed and it would not matter one bit - as long as they are playing well by April. Yes, April and that is a damn long way off. Veteran teams know the length of the season and it (for better or worse) takes awhile to get them going.

HB - agree with absolutely everything you said.

I watch all these games, and I watch all Boston games as they are REALLY fun to watch - unlike the often lethargic Cavs.
Come on now, this is a damn young team that plays with all kinds of enthusiasm, YES even in November. That means they actually TRY on defense - in November. It's all technique AND effort - but mostly effort. You have to give that extra bit getting back in transition. You have to give that extra bit, on defensive rotations covering the weak side and the switches. The Celtics do all that - in November.

And look, I do like Ty Lue. But Brad Stevens is an amazing coach and motivator. Also, he is matched up with guys who bust their tails for him.

Brad Stevens is top 3 coach in the NBA.

I get the impression Kyrie is absolutely giddy to be free of the circus in Cleveland and playing with an amazing coach and kids who bust it every night.

If you have watched Boston, every game I see Kyrie busting out assists, great passes, that I never saw in Cleveland. Stevens has him making his teammates better. And not all those passes are converted. Kyrie is reborn and made, in retrospect (for him) a genius move.

By the way I love the Cavs end of that deal as well. I said all along that as long as Isiah Thomas is back and playing well by April that's all that matters. And that draft pick is huge.

The Cavs really do need that 2nd threat, alongside Lebron. Kevin Love is really good, but he is not a ballhandler. They need someone like Isiah to demand defensive attention.

PS - I do think Wade is slowing getting into game shape/form and will step up as well.

I don't disagree with Rusty either. If LeBron was playing hard on defense and demanded it from everyone else the team would be playing better defense right now. I just think they're a veteran bunch that knows they're not in any immediate danger and will step it up later. In recent years LeBron is far more interested in saving his legs for the playoffs than winning games in November. I don't complain too much cause it has payed off pretty well. 3 straight Finals and a Championship. Just don't ask me to pay to watch.

Actually watched the game last night. TBS pbp actually hit it on the nose. 2nd quarter and LeBron is taking the ball inside or posting on the low block. 2nd half it was time to Chuck 3's. Yes there was some tickets tack fouls, but Love and LaBron were giving some play tough defense fouls. Just my 3 cents.

Hillbilly wrote:I don't disagree with Rusty either. If LeBron was playing hard on defense and demanded it from everyone else the team would be playing better defense right now. I just think they're a veteran bunch that knows they're not in any immediate danger and will step it up later. In recent years LeBron is far more interested in saving his legs for the playoffs than winning games in November. I don't complain too much cause it has payed off pretty well. 3 straight Finals and a Championship. Just don't ask me to pay to watch.

Ditto that on and on. The thing is, like you said they have coasted and then turned it on (blown teams out big time) in the playoffs. So we know they can do it for sure.

But yeah, unwatchable in the meantime. Although with the Houston game I could tell they were working hard so I did watch it more than I would ordinarily. Game by game basis.

When they are playing tough teams on National TV they seem to put forward their best foot. Early game against Celtics. The game last week when Wizards talked shit and got LeBron's ire up. Against who everyone considers a young upstart Bucks. But other games they have just layed an egg.

Last night was the first national TV game I wasn't able to watch. But to play Rockets close as they did in Houston I'm sure they were working hard.

So Kyrie tonight gets cracked in the nose, sits out the final 46 minutes, otherwise known as the whole game.

Al Horford sits with a concussion. And Gordon Hayward...well...

And they still win.

They are the anti-Cavs. Highly motivated, every game.

How about that: Cavs beat a bad team! Lebron was not leading scorer!

What's wrong with Rose currently? Any reason to think he'll be available regularly when it matters?

civ - early returns are telling that Rose, even when he plays is not a fit on this team.

His outside shot is poor. His defense is poor. He is a good penetrator, but that's about it and teams can anticipate that since he can't shoot.

Lebron is the facilitator so really they don't even need him. Kyrie was versatile enough to play off the ball when needed, as well as be the go to guy with the shot clock running down.

Now on top of that, Rose can't even stay on the court.

So to answer your question, it's irrelevant. It's all about Isiah Thomas coming back strong later on. If that happens it makes a huge difference because he can replace Kyrie quite well. And the additions of Wade, Jeff Green, Crowder - well, they will be really good athletic additions.

Until Isiah I think they will somewhat get by - again as long as they are in the playoffs it's all going to be fine.

Just unwatchable in large part in the meantime.

Although I will add one more thing I did notice. They are putting Kevin Love down low more now, where he is quite good and going to him a lot more.

Really it's about time because he really is capable much more than they've asked of him in the past and it's showing.

Another guy who could step up, Korver, who is now showing up at the end of games!

Cavaliers celebrate all the ways Kyle Korver helps them win
Updated Nov 12, 7:12 PM; Posted Nov 12, 9:00 AM

By Joe Vardon, Cleveland.com

jvardon@cleveland.com

DALLAS -- There were the ways Kyle Korver usually contributes to the Cavaliers' offense, such as the three 3s he knocked down in the fourth quarter.

There were the new ways, such as his backdoor cut for a rare layup with 1:44 to go, or his soaring through the air for a defensive rebound and drawing a foul with 36.8 seconds left. Naturally, he made the two foul shots.

Any way you look at it, Korver's hands were all over the Cavs' 111-104 win over the Dallas Mavericks. All of his 13 points came in the fourth quarter.

"Well, Kyle is big time," said LeBron James, who found him with a precise bounce pass on Korver's cut to the basket. "He's someone that we rely on, especially when he's on the floor. He's just in the right place at the right time and hits big-time 3s. Also got an and-1 down the stretch. Just his movement, his body, his energy allows us to just keep defenses off kilter."

Korver's answers for each of his key moments are worth digesting.

On said layup, in which he dusted his defender and finished the play for a five-point lead, Korver said "I'm trying to cut more to the basket this year and not just float around the outside.

"There's been a couple games where there's been some layups," Korver said. "Man, you get three layups, that helps your shooting percentage so much it's amazing. If I got three layups every game ... but anyway."

Korver's only shooting .463 from 3-point range this season and .523 overall. He's averaging 10.2 points off the bench.

On his key rebound, where he fended off Yogi Ferrell for the ball but crashed on his bottom and his right elbow on the play, Korver said: "That's why I try to stay down on the ground, let these other guys jump up there."

Korver is almost 37 and is in his 15th season.

"I think he kind of boosted me a little higher, I don't know how high it looked, but I think he boosted me a little higher than I was," Korver said. "My elbow's a little sore, my tail's a little sore, so hopefully tomorrow I'll be OK."

Korver also helps the Cavs in subtle ways. He's a de facto shooting coach, and at halftime was seen working with Jae Crowder, who was 0-of-5 through two quarters. Crowder converted a layup with 11 minutes left in the third quarter, and then at 8:35 drained a 3-pointer and pointed to Korver on the bench.

Korver told him at halftime his next 3-ball was going through the hoop.

"We shot a little bit and halftime and tried to talk through a couple things," Korver said. "It's one thing to just tell someone, 'You're going to make the next one.' I hate that. Don't you hate that? 'Keep on shooting, make the next one.' Yeah, whatever. When I do that, I think it's important to give something, too. Just a little technique, tinkering, not a big thing, just a little thing that you can kind of think about. Kind gives you, 'OK, I'm going to focus on this and now if I do this it's going to go in.'

"That's what helps me thinking about my mechanics if I miss a couple. 'But if I do this, the next one's going to go in.' So that's what I try to do, talk to guys and not just say, 'Be aggressive' and all that nonsense."

James has played nearly one full season with Korver, whom the Cavs acquired in a trade last January. James said his favorite thing about Korver is he's a "professional."

"I love professionals," James said. "Guys who come to work not on time, but early. Guys who work on their craft, work on their bodies, don't complain. Just being true professionals both on and off the floor. Who give you everything that they got. I can always give everything back to those type of guys and Kyle is one of those guys."

apparently Love has some really terrible defensive numbers playing at center. I lost the article. So things get better inside with Thompson, but is their enough depth at 5?

Hey civ - sorry I missed that. You absolutely have a point. I actually think that is a top item on their shopping list.

You may see a Tyson Chandler, or Greg Monroe either in a trade (less likely) or bought out and come here cheap.

This article actually tells a pretty good story of how the team is coming together. Now won 6 straight. I actually believe Wade needed time to work himself into shape and find a comfortable role early on. But now...watch out! The second unit was a problem vs the Warriors last year. Seems to have been prioritized.



Dwayne Wade enjoying role as leader of Cavaliers' revamped bench


By Chris Fedor, cleveland.com

cfedor@cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Tyronn Lue was noncommittal when asked about Dwyane Wade keeping the role of second-unit anchor when the team finally gets to full strength.

But the answer wasn't needed. Wade has earned that job.

"I enjoy it. I think we all do," Wade said following the Cavs' 119-109 win against the Brooklyn Nets. "In that second unit we stay talking. When we're on the bench our whole job is to, you know, come in and make a positive impact on the game and if we're down we're out there talking about what we need to do to help us get back. If we're up we're able to talk about what we need to do to extend. It's about getting stops in that unit. If we get stops then we can just play freely."

In the first half, the Nets outscored the Cavs by six points during the minutes with the second unit on the court, something Wade lamented following the game.

It wasn't the group's most productive night. That frustration shows how seriously he takes the new responsibility. Letting the opponent surge with LeBron James sidelined was a problem in past seasons, but Wade has made a concerted effort to change that.

He shouldered more of the offensive load early in the third quarter after James went to the locker room to get stitches just above his upper lip after bumping into Tyler Zeller.

At that time, the Cavs trailed by three points and James was having a quiet night -- by his standards. When he came back, the Cavs were still in a hole, only it was manageable.

"I thought we did a good job," Wade said. "Definitely always try to be a positive so we definitely played better in the second half and we had to. But when he went out and got the stitch we had to continue to stay aggressive, continue to make the push and when he came back in we continued to do that until it became a one-possession game and each time down the floor we gave it to our best player, the best player on the floor, and that's what he was."

James finished with 33 points, including 23 in a masterful fourth quarter, increasing his league-leading scoring average to 10.0 points in the final period.

As Wade said, when the Cavs needed him most, James morphed into superman. But every super hero needs a sidekick. Even at 35 years old, late in his career, Wade has shown there's still some "Flash" in his game.

And each night, he looks more comfortable in this new sixth man role, one he requested after early-season struggles as a starter.

"Him being (on) the second unit, being able to control that second unit, be aggressive and we run everything through him," Lue said. "That gets him in a better rhythm. I think he understands it and he enjoys it."

In three games as a starter, Wade was averaging 5.6 points on 28 percent from the field to go with 3.3 assists and 2.7 turnovers. He looked old and out of place on a team with title aspirations, as opponents outscored the Cavs by two points with him on the floor.

Since being moved to the bench, Wade has flourished. He's averaging 11.1 points on 44.8 percent from the field to go with 4.1 assists and 1.9 turnovers. He has a plus-minus of 4.2.

"He's been big," Love said of Wade's growth. "Tonight in particular, especially when 'Bron was out, he gave us everything. And he got to the basket quite a bit. Got us into the offense. Was finding guys miss or make. And he's done a good job of that. He's been much more vocal now that he's got really comfortable in his role."

With the ball in his hands, Wade can be more of an offensive focal point, the way he's been used throughout his Hall-of-Fame career. Earlier this season, he called himself a rhythm player. Being with the starters kept him from finding that. With James, Love and Jae Crowder, the shot attempts weren't available and instead of being the primary or secondary option, Wade was third or fourth in the pecking order.

That isn't a problem anymore.

Playing alongside sharpshooter Kyle Korver and stretchy Channing Frye, the court is spread, allowing Wade to ferociously attack the hoop, scoring around the rim like his prime years or getting to the foul line. He can also get teammates involved, a necessity given how many specialists dot the second unit.

It's just a better fit, accentuating Wade's strengths, and giving the Cavs the second-unit playmaker they've missed since Matthew Dellavedova's departure.

Early this season, Wade was searching. He was wondering about his role. He wasn't himself. Now he's showing the leadership and high basketball IQ the Cavs raved about when he signed.

"He's one of those guys, he's always talking, he's always talking the game, he does a great job," Korver said. "He's had to read defenses for so many years, now people are guarding him. He's really passing that on to everybody. He's really seeing what's there and he's relaying it in a good way. You can just yell at everybody and tell everybody what to do or you can...he's done a really good job just talking to everybody. He's added to this group in a lot of ways, but that's definitely one of them."

Wade can still fill it up too. He scored 18 points on 8-of-13 from the field against the Nets. It's the seventh time he's hit double figures. He also added a team-high five assists and four rebounds.

After a rocky start, Wade's found his place as leader of Cleveland's revamped second unit, a group he's helped become one of the league's best.

"It's a fun unit for us and I think it's going to be a very important unit for us as we get deep into the season and in the playoffs," Wade said. "That's the reason I wanted to come here and be a part of it."