Why does this sound familiar?

We can spare ourselves a lot of time watching all the OF's sign elsewhere after we make our not-good-enough offers as we did last year with 1st basemen before settling for the worst candidate available Casey Kotchman. Let's just figure out who's the worst candidate and tune in Feb 15 when the Indians give him a one-year deal.

seagull wrote:Indians have to go over the fiscal cliff to sign anyone that will make a difference. Time to step up and make a statement that you've not an irrelevent joke the rest of baseball thinks you are..

You have to be a joke to offer Victorino that kind of money.

rusty2 wrote:

seagull wrote:Indians have to go over the fiscal cliff to sign anyone that will make a difference. Time to step up and make a statement that you've not an irrelevent joke the rest of baseball thinks you are..

You have to be a joke to offer Victorino that kind of money.

That wouldn't be my choice either, but when you're below average at player development AND you're not willing to spend on veteran free agents (or even to retain your current players as they near free agency), your chances of fielding a successful team are going to be slim.

If you're looking for a winner, don't come to the ball park.

Looks like you can erase Haren and Victorrino of the chalk board. They're Gone!

Do these guys have a plan yet? The winter meetings are half over without any smoke coming from Cleveland.

What scares me is trading Choo and Cabrera and getting nothing to speak of in return. I just don't like the ability of these boys to judge real talent. If they do trade Choo and Cabrera, we should net a #1 starter that can lead this pitching staff. We should also get at least one outfielder who can jerk the ball out of the park more often than 15 or maybe 20 times a season. Preferably two corner outfielders since we would lose Choo. Also! We should receive a firstbaseman that can both field AND hit for decent power.

So! In summary, Choo, Cabrera, (Masterson) = 1 Ace pitcher, 2 corner outfielders, and 1 firstbaseman. They must all be major league ready to start opening day.

In case you missed it, "Iron Man" Grady had more surgery:

Free-agent outfielder Grady Sizemore underwent microfacture right knee surgery in September and will be unavailable for the start of the 2013 season, Anthony Castrovince of MLB.com reported Monday.

Sizemore attempted to work his way back from the knee injuries that have plagued his career since 2009 and avoid the surgery, but he missed the entire 2012 season in the process. The 30-year-old has played in just 210 games since 2009 with a .234/.314/.413 (98 OPS+) line; he hit .281/.372/.496 (128 OPS+) and missed just nine games total from 2005 through 2008. He has spent his previous eight years in the big leagues with Cleveland.

Castrovince says several clubs have inquired about Sizemore's availability, but the prognosis on his knee suggests he won't be able to suit up until midseason at the earliest. The microfracture surgery is Sizemore's second, with the first coming on his left knee in June 2010.

I forgot to add, any players in return should be in their mid-20's or younger.

Joe get a clue as usual. Can anyone really be this silly ? You are slowly killing everyones desire to read your desperate posts.

Haren and Victorino are both gone. Oh my ? Cabrera and Choo should bring back at least 2 corner outfielders, #1 starter, and a first baseman. Really ? You don't trust the guys that traded for Choo and Cabrera to trade them again ? Really ? Time to check yourself into the home before you drown in your own drool !

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Sources: #Indians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox.

The Indians have way too many holes in their lineup to be throwing that kind of money at Victorino, and I don't see how they would have the payroll/assets to fill in the other gaps.

Did they learn nothing from trading for Jimenez, and filling their other needs with absolute crap?

There's a lot of quality corner outfielders and firstbasemen out there who are not superstars but better than the crap we have on this team that can fill one, some, or all of those holes.

Masterson's name came up in trade talks. I'm including him in any one-way, two-way, or three-way deals.

You are right. I don't trust these guys in the front office. Ten years of futility and 3, count them, three 90+ games lost seasons out of the last 4 years should convince even you Rusty. Out of the last 13 years, since 2000, we've only had 5 seasons over (.500).

Choo, Cabrera, and Masterson should be enough to fill all our holes if these stiffs know how to deal without getting fleeced again.

Do I trust the Ivy League tag team (brains) of this organization that traded for Cabrera and Choo.

Yeah! About as far as I can throw them.

You are referring to same gentlemen that traded away two Cy Young Award winners and haven't been able to smell a division championship since. Correct??? 3 out of the last 4 years of 90+ loss seasons !?!?!? WTF !!!

The same team players that have astounded us one and all with their free agency deals ????

Those guys ????

Rusty!

If I was a newcomer to this forum and read your posts, I'd think that you were a three year old. Your vocabulary speaks for itself.

The Ivy Leaguers that you think so highly of has done nothing to get my juices flowing.

I'm not excluding the owner of this team either. He's as bad as the rest of his hired hands.

Boston Red Sox beat out Cleveland Indians for OF Shane Victorino

Published: Tuesday, December 04, 2012, 9:19 PM Updated: Tuesday, December 04, 2012, 9:20 PM

By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- There are two ways of looking at the Indians getting slapped in the face by free agency Tuesday, when outfielder Shane Victorino signed with Boston.

No.1: No big surprise, it happens every winter.

No.2: They lost Victorino, but where in the heck did a $44 million offer come from and what does it mean for the rest of the off-season?

Victorino, 32, signed a three-year, $39 million deal with Boston. The Indians countered with four years for a total of $44 million only to come up empty.

The Indians pursued the switch-hitting Victorino since he filed for free agency at the end of last season. Boston had the same idea and despite a terrible showing last season is probably closer to making the postseason than the Indians.

Victorino probably would have played left field in Cleveland. He'll play right for the Red Sox after hitting .255 (152-for-595) with 29 doubles, seven triples, 11 homers and 55 RBI last season for the Phillies and Dodgers. He scored 72 runs and stole 39 bases in 45 attempts.

On Monday, the Red Sox reached an agreement with catcher-first baseman Mike Napoli for the exact same deal they reached with Victorino, three years and $39 million.

So where does that leave the Indians? Providing they don't put the $44 million back in the vault, they have some money to pursue other players.

Joe Bick, agent for Kevin Youkilis, met with the Indians on Tuesday. It didn't sound like anything is too far down the road, but Youkilis is a viable option for the Tribe's vacancy at first base. He's said to be seeking a two-year deal. The White Sox and Yankees are also interested in Youkilis, who made $12.25 million last season.

Power-hitting Mark Reynolds, 29, is on the market as well. Baltimore non-tendered him last week after he hit .221 (101-for-457) with 23 homers and 69 RBI in 135 games in the regular season. In 2011, Reynolds hit 37 homers and 86 RBI, despite a .221 batting average.

Reynolds, who can play first, third and outfield, made $7.5 million last season. The Indians, as of Tuesday evening, had not met with Reynolds' agents.

The Arizona Diamondbacks have spent the off-season looking for a shortstop. Right now, they have Cliff Pennington. The Indians have been dangling shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera to see if they can maximize his value. The Diamondbacks have been shopping outfielder Justin Upton for much of the year.

The power-hitting Upton will make $38.5 million over the next three years. That's less than the Tribe's offer to Victorino, so perhaps there's a deal there.

Arizona GM Kevin Towers, however, said Tuesday that Upton's contract seemed a little more manageable in light of what Victorino, Angel Pagan (four years, $40 million) and B.J. Upton (five years, $75 million) have signed for recently. Upton, 25, hit .280 (155-for-554) with 107 runs, 24 doubles, four triples, 17 homers and 67 RBI. The right-handed hitter played mostly right field.

The Indians, Rangers and Mariners are said to be interested in him.

On the pitching front, the Indians remain interested in Edwin Jackson, the free agent right-hander who went 10-11 in 31 starts for Washington. Until late last season, Jackson was represented by Scott Boras. Jackson is now represented by Legacy Sports, the same firm that represents former Indians CC Sabathia and Travis Hafner.

The two parties have not met at the winter meetings, but the change in agents should make for smoother negotiations. At the GM meetings, Boras, who represents Shin-Soo Choo, questioned Indians ownership on how committed it is to winning.

Choo, Cabrera, and Masterson should be enough to fill all our holes

Yeah good thing we drafted and developed these three guys so we'd be able to trade them and fill the holes.

I love ya Joez, but sometimes ...

Rosenthal: the Rangers, Diamondbacks, Indians and Rays are discussing a potential mega deal
Craig Calcaterra Dec 5, 2012, 8:32 AM EST
10 Comments

AP

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that a potential blockbuster is brewing. Specifically, a mutli-team, multi-player trade that could involve Arizona, Cleveland, Texas and Tampa Bay with Justin Upton, James Shields and Asdrubal Cabrera being the biggest names involved.

Rosenthal – while cautioning that a deal is not imminent or even particularly likely at the moment — reports that one iteration of the trade would have Justin Upton heading to Texas, Asdrubal Cabrera to Arizona and the Indians getting “a package of young talent,” which could include the Rangers’ Mike Olt.

On paper this makes sense in that the Rangers — who are still mulling signing Josh Hamilton — want a bat, the Diamondbacks want a shortstop for Upton and the Indians need prospects. Versions of the trade Rosenthal is hearing that include the Rays have James Shields being shipped out in exchange for a bat. He also says that simple two-team trades could easily spin out of this. It’s all very fluid, it seems.

But even if a monster deal like this doesn’t happen — and Rosenthal cautions that the odds are against it due to its difficulty — the mere fact that such talks are going down is instructive. Indeed, its evidence that the ability of teams to simply go out and sign what they need has been greatly curtailed due to a much more sparse free agent market thanks to teams locking up their core players at younger and younger ages. The Rangers can’t simply add a reasonably-priced bat. The Diamondbacks can’t simply sign a starting shortstop. Creativity is required.

What I've read about Cabrera is that the Indians are demanding heavy returns (1 major league starting pitcher, another close to major league ready and high prospect, and 2 more players) and there is a suspicion that they may not be able to find anyone who will give them all that they ask. Choo would bring much less with only 1 year until free agency.